• thriveinc

Harnessing Conflict Both Personally and Professionally with Greg and Jenifer Lambert

Updated: Nov 18, 2019

We know you will benefit from hearing real life stories of the experiences other leaders and partners have had with embracing the Beauty of Conflict.


That's why we have Jenifer and Greg on the podcast this week- they are partners in life and business and can show us all how harnessing conflict can have such a positive impact in all arenas of life.


In fact, Jenifer was so moved by the power of using conflict in a way that serves everyone, she helped us come up with the second part of our book, The Beauty of Conflict: Harnessing Your Team's Competitive Advantage. She's the one that really saw the advantage of using what we teach in her own life.


And now you can hear why. Jenifer and Greg are sharing with us how using the tools we teach helped them shift personally and how it is helping their team and those who see them living in this way.


This is a really fun episode with some tools and examples you can use in your own life. We can't wait for you to listen (or read it!) at the link below and let us know if you can relate to Jenifer and Greg's story.


Listen on Apple Podcast | Stitcher | Spotify


Learn More:


Find Your Mojo in Montana - Early bird is open now

The Beauty of Conflict for Couples


Full Transcript:

CrisMarie: We're excited to have Greg and Jenifer Lambert on today. they are the primary owners of TERRA Staffing Group. TERRA Staffing Group has been delivering a broad range of staffing solutions to clients from small privately held companies to Fortune 500 firms across diverse industries since 1983. They've established themselves as a leader in the staffing industry, and have even earned the coveted Best of Staffing Award eight years in a row.


Greg serves as a company CEO, and Jenifer is the company's chief revenue officer. Jenifer's mother founded the company in 1983, and the couple has since purchased the majority shares.


Susan: So, Jenifer joined the business right out of college. The year after joining the business, she recruited Greg. Now, Jenifer refers to that is the best hire she ever made.


CrisMarie: She was dating him at the time.


Susan: Yes, and she's still considered her best.


CrisMarie: Yeah?


Susan: This is a while ago. The company have a 150 full-time staff with revenues approaching 100 million. Greg and Jen not only found a way to work together, they claimed that they love it and say that if they weren't running this business, they'd find another business to run together. Now, that's something.


CrisMarie: So, we're excited to have you both here. Thank you for joining us.


Jenifer L.: Thank you for having us.


Greg Lambert: Thank you for having us.


CrisMarie: You bet.


Susan: Just so people know as you're listening to this, they're in different locations. So, we are doing our first ever with three different unique locations going. So if at different times we overlap, well, we want to keep it conversational, so we'll see how that goes.


CrisMarie: Yeah. So, tell us about how you two came into working together as business leaders as well as spouses as you started the company. Jen, you can start because you hired Greg. Then I imagine as things developed, you wound up getting married and then working together. Talk about how that transition went.


Jenifer L.: Yeah, I do joke that he's the best placement that I ever made, and I still stand by that. At the time that I recruited him into the business, we were both really young and just starting out our careers. I don't think either of us thought that we would be here, fast forward, 25 nearly 30 years, actually. It was a family business, it was meant to help out my family as well as give us both some work experience. I think we both imagined that, at some point, we'd be on to "bigger and better things."


But, we fell in love with the business and we really enjoy working together. So not long after he joined the business, we did get married, and our roles have really evolved over time. One time, we were peers on the organizational chart. Currently, he is officially my boss. He is the CEO.


At the time that we decided it was time for that transition in the CEO role, we talked about who wants to be the CEO. I was very much in favor of him taking on that role, because I think his skills are better aligned for that role. So today, we're on an executive team of five people. There's three others in addition to us, and so we're peers. I also report to him as our CEO, and it works really well on 99 out of 100 days.


CrisMarie: Greg, do you have anything you want to add?


Greg Lambert: Well, you did notice that she did put bossy in quotes as according to her distinction there. No, it does work great. I think working together, in my opinion, enhances our relationship. I think we learned how to communicate better both at work and at home because skills that we would learn at work could transfer to how we would communicate at home. We really learned how to be more respectful of each other in both venues, and I think that's really added and improved to the relationship overall.


CrisMarie: Yeah, it is pretty tricky, because we're spouses in business, too. You can have a real casual err with your spouse at home. Then when you're in front of an audience or a team, it's a little bit different. It can be a little bit more... Yeah, I appreciate that you've learned one of the challenges of how to actually show up and still have differences, but do it in a respectful way at work.


Jenifer L.: Yeah.


CrisMarie: Well, what challenges came up around being both partners in life and business over the course of these 25 or 30 years?


Jenifer L.: I'll go first.


CrisMarie: Thank you, Jen. I forgot to ask.


Jenifer L.: That's okay. We're both holding back. I'll go first. I think that the biggest challenge is that because there is a personal relationship, sometimes the conflict feels more personal, and you don't have the luxury of compartmentalizing. So, you get into a fight with your boss at work or you have a disagreement with your coworker, you can go home and vent to your spouse about it, maybe, or can walk away from it, "I'm just going to go home. I'll deal with this tomorrow."


Well, I go home and he's there. We don't have the luxury, but I would say to Greg's point about how it's made us better in both spheres by working together. It's because you don't have that luxury, you're forced to deal with it and that's ultimately, I think more healthy, but there are times when that bleed over is more difficult.


CrisMarie: Oh, I can imagine. Greg, do you want to give your point of view?


Greg Lambert: Yeah, I think the main challenge that we'll occasionally see is the language that you will sometimes use. Even though you believe it's professional in nature at work, it sounds much more personal when you're as a spouse. So, you may say something quite innocent and the other party may say, "Hey, you don't talk to your other employees that way. Why do you talk to me that way?" But you don't necessarily see the difference in tonality always while you're at work.


So, I think that's something you have to be, for me, I have to be very cognizant of is making sure that I'm not trying to portray any type of tonality to it. I think one thing that makes it a challenge for me is I tend to be more passive and more reserved, making sure that I don't communicate more powerfully than I'm intending with my spouse, because then it causes a new conflict when I'm not intending it to happen.


CrisMarie: So, it sounds like you would kind of hold back in dealing with Jen because it...


Greg Lambert: I don't hold back, but it will be more patient in terms of my communication. So, maybe I may not say it in front of a full group and I may say it more privately where the communication can be a little bit more casual and professional simultaneously.


CrisMarie: Got it.


Susan: Okay. Jen, do you agree with that? Do you think he holds back? I can't help but ask.


Jenifer L.: I do try to tell some things, Susan. Let's demonstrate how we work through conflict right now. Well, yes and no. Yeah, that is something. Actually, that's feedback he's gotten from our executive team. I think he's gotten a lot better about it, that they've sometimes felt like he was holding back, and nobody wants him to hold back.


We understand why, and I think we understand why he does that sometimes. He's gotten a lot better about that, but I do agree with him that there are things that we'll say to each other that if we just said it between the two of us, it would be fine. But when you say that same thing in front of other people, it feels different.


So like yesterday, just a tiny example, in a meeting, he stopped me because I was going on. If it had been just the two of us and he'd said that to me, it would never have bothered me, but because there was another person present, it felt different. So, it's not even inappropriate how he said it. It's just that just being in a different context, it feels dense. I think that's what he's referring to, those types of interactions.


CrisMarie: Yeah. I just had a question. Does it feel different between you two or does the other person interpreted as different, or even when it lands for you, Jenifer, if feels like, "Oh, I didn't like that he said that."


Jenifer L.: The person who's not in this couple?


CrisMarie: Yes. The third person.


Jenifer L.: I can't speak to how it feels for them. One of the things we're really mindful of, we've heard horror stories of family business or couples in business where they're this family dynamic that's really uncomfortable for others to have to witness. We are really cognizant of that. We don't call each other pet names in front of other people, where we keep our communication professional. I mean, I think people are always aware that there is that relationship, but it's not...


We've actually had some employees who didn't realize right away that we were a couple or they thought, "Oh, family business. Are they siblings?" I mean, we really try not to make that dynamic too front and center.


CrisMarie: Got it.


Susan: Sure.


Jenifer L.: Yeah.


CrisMarie: Now, when we came and worked with you a few years back, and I'd be curious, what prompted, and Jen you can answer first and then Greg, you can-


Susan: I think you should switch it over this time. Give Greg the lead.


CrisMarie: Okay, Greg. You can answer first. What prompted you to bring us in, and yeah, to work with your leadership team? Just talk about that.


Greg Lambert: Yeah. Well for a year an executive meaning, I wanted to bring in a facilitator because of the topics that we were wrestling with I felt what was best for facilitator. The other facilitators that I had interviewed, I just didn't feel would be the right fit for our organization. Jenifer knew of you, and she had interacted with another one of the people that you had worked with in the past, and recommended you.


CrisMarie: Excellent. Jen, do you want to add anything to that?


Jenifer L.: Yeah. Greg normally facilitates our retreats as the CEO, and we wanted him to be able to participate more fully as just a participant and not having to wear both hats of a facilitator and a participant. So really, he was looking for a recommendation for a facilitator. The time we didn't realize that all the content you would offer that you would also bring to the meeting that ended up being really valuable.


So I think early on, our initial impression was just that we were hiring a facilitator to facilitate our agenda, but you brought some content and some tools to it that were really valuable.


CrisMarie: Excellent. I would just even be curious as to what actually stood out that you've continued to use or even your perspective on conflict the way we talk about it. What shifted for you in working with us? Jen, why don't you start, and then we'll go to Greg?


Jenifer L.: Sure, yeah. I would tell you that at the time that you were introduced, some of the conflict tools to us, I thought, "Well this'll be interesting, and this'll be always valuable to brush up on any sort of skill or knowledge base," but I would have told you that we didn't have conflict. Minor disagreements from time to time, but conflict didn't define our teams.


So, it wasn't at the level of dysfunction, there was a lot of respect. We had a high value for fair play and mutual respect. The whole concept of conflict seemed like... I approached, it with sort of an arms length curiosity like, "Well this will be valuable. You never know when you might need something like this." But I realized through the process of working with you that part of the reason we didn't have "conflict," I say in quotes, is because we were not honestly addressing differences.


So, we would side step each other. It was the things that weren't being talked about or it was the conversations where we would differ too quickly to somebody else just for the sake of being agreeable. Even if we didn't fully agree, and I realized that while we weren't in the classic ugly conflict, there was no stonewalling or resentment and that kind of thing happening. We were doing a disservice to the business by not really being willing to hang in there when there was authentic moments of disagreement, and really embracing it.


I love the title of your book, The Beauty of Conflict, because I had never seen conflict as beauty. It was something to just get through, and/or potentially, sidestep. Now, I think our team has a better appreciation for hanging in there and saying, "I see it differently," and being willing to risk conflict in order to get a better result and be true to what is the best interest of the business.


Susan: Hey, Jen, I just wanted to say that I'm glad that you love the title. I believe it was actually you that helped us come up with the second part of the title, which was, Harnessing Your Team's Competitive Advantage, like using the word. I don't know if you remember that, but-


Jenifer L.: Thank you for reminding me. I do now, and it's authentic. I mean, I think the reason I don't remember it without some prompting is that it didn't feel like a difficult project to me to help you with that. It felt very authentic. I do believe that harnessing our ability to work through conflict and not run from it, but actually engage it is a competitive advantage for us.


Because all you know for certain, when two people don't see something the same way, is that potentially one of them, maybe both of them, are wrong. It would be to the benefit of the business to figure out which one of them. We want to see what the truth is, right? So instead of just deferring to quickly for the sake of peace, it's a cheap and easy peace that actually, I think you're short changing the relationship, and you're shortchanging the interest of the business.


CrisMarie: Hmm. I really appreciate, this is CrisMarie, the idea that you didn't think you had conflict, and because conflict can look like just silence. It can look like what you said sidestepping. Until you actually kind of mine for conflict, "No, we really want your ideas," that's when it's not even my idea is right or yours is right. It's actually when we start talking, something new emerges that neither of us were thinking about before, which is so powerful. Yeah. Greg, we've been chatting. Do you want to share anything here?


Greg Lambert: Well, I think from bringing into the group, I think as business leaders, Jenifer and I were much more comfortable engaging as you called, mining for conflict. Like, we were much more comfortable with it than I found that the other members of our executive team. I think especially for Jenifer and I, we were much more comfortable sparring and dealing with issues in the public than they were. So, I felt it really helped them much more than I realized, where I...


Maybe for myself, I didn't feel like I was uncomfortable with conflict. I realized how uncomfortable they were with conflict, and it really gave them more tools to communicate back to us. Even in the interacting with them, I could gave me more tools to be able to solicit more communication from them and make sure that they felt comfortable saying whatever they needed to say. So, that's what I found was one of the biggest benefits.


Jenifer L.: That's a great point, Greg. I hadn't thought about that pre our work with you, CrisMarie and Susan, that the rest of our team would sit back and watch Greg and I duke it out. I say duke it out very lightly. I mean, we didn't really duke it out, but I think they were very like, "Okay. Well, these two will disagree and we'll sit back and see what they come up with."


Finally, I remember one meeting I said, "Any one of you is free to speak up at any point here. Surely you have an opinion on this," because we had two very different opinions on this particular topic. They have now found their own voice or found how to use their voice in that. I mean just yesterday, in a meeting between three of us on the executive team, we had a disagreement about how to proceed with something. It was so different, that conversation, than what it would have been pre our working together.


We went back and forth. By the end, we came to a decision that we were all bought into, but we hung in there, advocating for why we thought one course of direction was the right one until we all felt comfortable with the outcome. Not just comfortable, but I think we believed that we'd come to the right decision.


CrisMarie: I love that example, Jen. This is CrisMarie, because I think so often, teams do let like, "Let's let the people in power," you two, "let them duke it out or figure it out, and then we'll just do the direction they tell us." But they may not have that level of buy-in. They may be thinking in their heads, "That's really not going to work." "Okay, I'll do it anyway."


I think so often, organizations that we work with think, "Oh, it's going to take too much time to have this conversation. We should just make a decision and go on," but the level of buy-in and the creativity that comes up when you have that discussion is so powerful in the long run for the business results and the bottom line business results, really.


Susan: So true.


Jenifer L.: Right.


Susan: I was also thinking, and this is Susan, I was thinking about how even when you guys were talking earlier about how you have, as a couple, learn to show up and work, and do continually keep supporting people on your team or in your business to not think of you as a couple. I can imagine even with that group when we first worked with you, even though you guys were doing that really well, I think for them sometime, the way that you two had both a personal and business thing could have also been a factor in some of their going background.


I think they even talked a little bit about not in a big way, not in a way you guys would have even realized, but it was probably something they could say that they might not have said another time. It's been a while since we had that session, but I think for them, it was something like that both things were true. They knew you as a couple, and they knew you as their business leaders on the team.


CrisMarie: Now, what are the tools that I think... Jen, this might've even come when we were working with common client. We talked about the Check It Out Model and Check Out Your Story, or I think you have been somebody who has taken and run with that. So, I wanted you to share, and even if you have an example, share more of how you've used that, and what impact it's made for you in the business and, personally, even with Greg.


Jenifer L.: Yeah, and I'd love to hear Greg's perspective on this, too, because I had heard about the Check It Out Model, not the model itself, but I saw the artifacts of the model. I saw some of the language from the model with a client that you and I had in common, and that's how I first met you. This client would use language with me. Like, "The story I'm telling myself is this," is that true or false? I found that so helpful in my interaction with her.


I'd never had a client use that sort of language to navigate potential points of misunderstanding, or this making sure that we were in agreement or on the same page, and just that particular phrase, I found so helpful that I adopted it in my work with other clients and with candidates that were placing, and found it to be helpful to start teaching it to other people. It's just part of our language. Like, this is a great way if you're not sure if a person is on board, just say, "Hey, the story I'm telling myself is you are not really on board with this. Am I right or wrong?"


I just knew the language. I didn't really know the whole model. So then, when you rolled the model out to us, I remember the the light bulb was going off over the rest of the team's head going, "Hey, this is where the story I'm telling something comes from that you use all the time." Right? I didn't know that that's where it came from. I just knew I liked it when my client used it with me.


That's how good the tool is. That without knowing the model, I could see the value, right? I could see that it helped us work together better, and that language has really permeated our culture now. We use it all over the place. I'd love to hear from you Greg about your perception because you were newer to that model.


Greg Lambert: Where I see the model really transforming in our business is it helps us with dealing with our clients. We're able to sometimes change a customer service perspective where we can say, "Okay so what story are you telling yourself about this client?" Allowing the recruiter, they're in conflict with someone that they can't really engage in conflict with, it allows them to work through the scenario, and help them articulate all their misperceptions or perceptions of it of a situation.


That's one of the things that I have found that the tool really kind of has enhanced our business. For me, what I've found, is I'm able to ask people their side of the story and give them language that they can use when communicating. So I'll typically ask, "Well, how do you see things? What's your perspective on the story?" or "How do you perceive what I'm trying to ask or communicate?" And just taking more time to dig into their perspective than necessarily advocating for my position.


Jenifer L.: But Greg, I've also seen you use it to check your own thinking, which I think has been a huge value and benefit for you, where you've really checked in with your own story.


CrisMarie: Do you agree, Greg?


Greg Lambert: Yeah, I like my story. I like to hear it.


Jenifer L.: We're always the hero of our own story, right?


CrisMarie: Exactly.


Greg Lambert: Always the hero.


CrisMarie: Hey, I want to note, and this is because you folks have also, you two as a couple, have gone through a remodel and a great vacation, and then I think you now you have family living with you.


Jenifer L.: We do.


CrisMarie: So, how has that... Those are not easy experiences for most of us. Maybe they'd been better for you folks, but what has helped you get through those stressful decision making time?


Susan: Let's just be a little more clear. Often, those decisions bring up a lot of conflict or tension. We'll call it tension, even if it's loving tension when family is living with you. So, we would love to hear from you how that's gone.


CrisMarie: Yeah. Greg, why don't you start?


Greg Lambert: Well, I'll speak from the a family perspective, because I think it's the most recent for in my mind. Even though Jenifer sometimes kind of gently teases me, I set a foundational meeting where I expressed what my goals were for having them move in, and what my hopes were that we could accomplish, and wanting to get their hopes and what their goals of moving in together was.


So even just on Sunday, when we have a Sunday family dinner, I had a meeting, which it's just as corny as it sounds, where I'm going to express how is it things going? But, do you have any problems? Do you have any questions or anything you need help with? Are we doing anything to inconvenience you?


It gives us an opportunity to express any frustrations or problems we have in a very, hopefully, safe. It's kind of uncomfortable, especially when dealing with family, to deal with those types of topics. Especially, there's parenting issues involved, because they have two small kids, and I've just found that utilizing a more straightforward where you can express yourself and give people a forum to express themselves back is really what will build the relationship stronger.


Susan: This, it sounds like Greg, you've done a great job of taking what you've learned in business and applying it really well in the family environment. Setting up the meeting, giving the structure, having goals. I love it.


Jenifer L.: Yeah. For a backstory for your audience, our family is living with us for about six months while they... This my brother and his wife, and their two toddlers are preschoolers, I should say. Three and four year olds, super active, three and four year old. They're in the process of building a home. So, there'll be with us for six months while they build a home.


Yeah, the meeting that we had with them was, "Well, here's what we would hope would happen over the next six months. We hope that by the end of six months, we like you even more, and that we're closer, and that we build some better, tighter bonds with your children." They shared those goals as well. So when Greg started this meeting on Sunday night, and one of his expectations, too, is that insofar as it's possible that once a week, at least once a week, we'll share a meal together and talk about how it's going.


So sure enough, in the middle of our dinner, he said, "Okay, here's the time for the meeting," and everybody kind of laughed like, "All right, here's the conversation then." He just restated the goal. He said, "This was our goal at the beginning, how's it going?" He just keeps bringing us back to it, and it's the same thing he did with our contractor when we did our remodel. Everybody had told us that remodels are horrible and nightmares, and it wasn't for us.


Partly, we chose the right general contractor, that helps. But at the beginning, we had a meeting with the general contractor, and we said, "Here's our goal. Our goal, besides being on time and on budget," which we weren't either. That never happens, but we are close enough.


But our bigger goal was that by the end of this project, we like you even more than we do today, and that we can be a great reference for you and that we can... We both have, me especially, a pretty active social media presence. "I want to be bragging about how great my contractor is. It'll be good for me, it will be good for you."


Every week, we had a meeting. Greg insisted on a once a week meeting with our contractor. We'd go over how things were going, details of the project, but also how are we doing in our relationship, and were we on track? Were we off track? It was great.


CrisMarie: I love it.


Susan: That's great.


CrisMarie: And you did brag. We watched your remodel on social media because we're going-


Jenifer L.: Yeah. I would happily tag them, and give them exposure as they were earning. Right? Like if you do great work for me, I will toot your horn. If you do bad work for me, I'll also... Yeah.


CrisMarie: Toot.


Jenifer L.: You won't like this, the tune, but it's their choice whether they're going to do great work or not, and they did great work.


CrisMarie: That's fabulous. Even like with the family, I love the meeting, because often, even with couples when we're working with couples, there's such differences with space, expectations on how things are neat or tidy or not, a pacing, when people come on time or not. So, those are all rich-


Susan: And it's also so easy when you go home to kind of think, "Oh, we're going to have plenty of time to talk about this. It's going to happen naturally," and I love that, Greg, you kind of said, "We're going to have a meeting," because it doesn't happen naturally.


CrisMarie: No.


Jenifer L.: No.


CrisMarie: Nine times out of 10, couples are making, and families, are making really important decisions while they're brushing their teeth or sitting over the kitchen table, not with any sort of structure. So, the decision isn't as strong, so.


Greg Lambert: Well, and I think the advice I would give to anybody is even when we were doing this family meeting, every chance during that meeting, people were trying to escape from it. They were trying to change the topic and move away from, because that type of meeting environment is very conflict oriented. Right? Because you're right on the edge of conflict, right? Because you are discussing whether there's going to be a problem or not.


So, you have to be willing to pull people back to the conflict to say, "We're not done yet. Don't escape, hang in there emotionally." I find in whether it be business or personal, that being comfortable enough to point people back into the conflict will make it stronger at the end.


Jenifer L.: A premature escape is never good.


CrisMarie: Yeah, and that people will want to do that, opt out and get out of there. I love the encouragement to kind of hang in. We call it real time permission. It might be uncomfortable, but this is important; because otherwise, it will squirt out somewhere else. So, good on you for doing that.


Susan: Yes.


CrisMarie: Snaps for Greg and Jen.


Susan: Yes. I love just where we've covered from where you guys started in the business and the amazing job you have done as a couple, but also with your executive team and growing your business. Then, bringing it back to also how this applies at home, doing a remodel, bringing family to live in your home. So, I've actually enjoyed the rich journey that we've taken with you guys.


CrisMarie: Yes, and we love that you are willing to share your time and your stories with our listeners and us. So, thank you.


Susan: Do you have any closing comments before we finish up?


Jenifer L.: I would say that just in the interest of keeping it real, one of the things you brought up about having that intentional place, one of the things Greg and I have realized recently is that we have all these intentional places for meetings in our business and meetings with our family living with us, and we're now working on creating more intentional meeting space for us.


Everybody in our business has a one-on-one with their boss. Even though he may be my "boss" in quotes, he still is my boss. So one of the things we've realized is that we have not been doing that for ourselves. So, that's what's next for us as far as pushing that issue.


CrisMarie: Yeah. Wow.


Susan: It's so easy to take care of everybody else, but not take care of you, too.


Jenifer L.: Yeah. We talk all the time, right? To your points, we talk all the time. So, these decisions are being made while you brush your teeth, or they don't get made because well, we talked about it, but we never made a decision because we're all talking about business. So, just trying to create more intentional space where we have an agenda and work through things.


Susan: That's great.


CrisMarie: That's great. Perfect. Greg, did you want to say any final comments, or?


Greg Lambert: No, I've enjoyed really having you have us on, and being able to share our story. I appreciate all the help you've provided us over the years.


CrisMarie: Oh, excellent. Well, you'll have to also get our couples book because that's where we talk about conflict, how it deals with more personally.


Jenifer L.: Yes.


Susan: Yes, that's coming out in September.


CrisMarie: You two blend both worlds, which I really love.


Susan: Yeah. We love that.


CrisMarie: So, thank you so much. Well, that was fun having Jen and Greg on.


Susan: Oh, yeah. It was so cool, too. Even though they were in different locations, so we had to come up with a way to easily and effortlessly manage and navigate through our conversation, that was perfect.


CrisMarie: I know. I love what was really neat is at the end there, having the family meetings and how much people want to escape that family meeting, because you're bumping up to the edge of conflict, and people were also uncomfortable. "We want to opt out and get out of there," and to keep coming back to that container and that conversation, I thought that was powerful.


Susan: I so wish we had recorded just to touch longer, because some of the things that Greg were saying, also, so applying in terms of part of the reason that happens is because people don't want to be vulnerable, and that is hard. So, that was a rich part that wasn't even on the recording, but I think was a neat thing that he said afterwards.


CrisMarie: That, because we avoid it. We avoid that conversation because we don't want to show up and maybe have different expectations and say something, be vulnerable and say, "I'm uncomfortable with this" or "I don't like this."


Susan: Yes.


CrisMarie: But how it changes things when we do.


Susan: Yes. What I loved about the overall interview was they have been so successful at being able to navigate being Jen's boss is Greg. Jen hired Greg. Yes, there's all sorts of dynamics that come up in family businesses, and sometimes it can be pretty darn ugly and messy.


They have done an amazing job of working with each other, and through their own stuff, and being able to actually provide a space for the people they work with to show up, and more real because I know sometimes, that's a hard thing to do when you're not in the family.


CrisMarie: Yeah, exactly. I really loved how Jen was talking about the other people in the meeting would watch Jen and Greg figure it out. They both really created a space, I think, she was saying after working with us for them to come forward. Now, they're much more on even ground and get much better results, which I think was terrific.


Susan: I love how she referenced how she got introduced to Check Out Your Story. And indeed, we do know that client who we feel very warmly toward, and the fact that she was using it without even fully getting it, but had such a profound impact for her, and that was great.


CrisMarie: Yeah.


Susan: So overall, we really enjoyed our time with them. Again, Jen was the one who helped us with our title.


CrisMarie: Yeah, I totally forgot that. That was so cool. Yes, we loved having them on. Hopefully you enjoyed them.


Susan: Let's just be clear, if you have a staffing issue, TERRA Staffing's the place to call.


CrisMarie: Hey, I actually want to say, even out here in Montana, we ran into a staffing person, another person who owns a staffing company and she was like, "Oh, TERRA Staffing? They are honored far and wide."


Susan: Yes.


CrisMarie: That's great.


Susan: Now we know why. Yeah. So, hopefully you've enjoyed this and we look forward to hearing you. Please, if you like the broadcast, give us a five star review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts.


Thank you for listening to the Beauty of Conflict podcast. If you're in a couple and you want to work with us and the horses, then come and join us for our Couples Mojo Program. The Next Couples Mojo Program is going to be happening at Apache Springs Resort in Arizona. This is a beautiful location, and it will be happening October 25th to the 28th of this year.


Now for those of you wondering, "Why would I come to a Couples Mojo Program?" Well not only do you get the benefit of some of the things we've learned over the years, but if you have any hesitation about giving your significant other feedback, trust me, the horses will give it to them for you.


CrisMarie: Rarely do couples take the time to step out of their busy lives and engage and digest and look in their relationship. When you do, you can increase your intimacy, your passion, your aliveness, and your emotional connection. So, it's a really fun time, and Apache Springs is beautiful.


We'll also be doing one in Montana in the springtime, so stay tuned for more information about that. You can sign up for Couples Mojo on our website, which is www.thriveinc.com. T-H-R-I-V-E.


Susan: I-N-C.com.


CrisMarie: Did I spell that right?


Susan: Yes, you said it correctly. You can also find our articles, join our newsletter there, buy our other books, and learn more about other programs we're going to be offering.


CrisMarie: If you enjoyed this show, please tell a few friends, or post a five star review on iTunes. Your review helps new listeners discover the show. More people listening to this show means less friction and arguing and suffering out in the world. So, that's a great thing for everyone. Okay, thanks for listening. Hope you have a peaceful, productive, and beautiful day.

CrisMarie Campbell and Susan Clarke


Coaches, Business Consultants, Speakers and Authors of The Beauty of Conflict

CrisMarie and Susan work leaders and teams, couples in business, and professional women.

They help turnaround dysfunctional teams into high performing, cohesive teams who trust each other, deal with differences directly, and have clarity and alignment on their business strategy so they create great results.

Connect with CrisMarie and Susan on LinkedIn.

Watch their TEDx Talk: Conflict – Use It, Don’t Defuse It!

Order their new book The Beauty of Conflict for Couples: Igniting Passion, Intimacy, and Connection in Your Relationship.


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