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  • Writer's pictureThrive Inc.

Unpack Your Stress: There's More to the Story

Updated: Dec 19, 2020

We want you to think about the stressors you’ve faced in 2020. It might be that you’ve lost a loved one, your business is at risk of having to shut down, or it could be that you’re simply tired of being on video calls from morning until night. Now think about a special day in your life that’s brought you joy. How do you feel when you think about each circumstance?

A few weeks back, we discussed how to deal with stress when the stressor won’t go away, but we think there’s more to the conversation. So often, when stress impacts us, it’s not the stress that’s affecting us but the way we’re thinking about it. This week, we want you to learn to separate the stress from the stressor, unpack your emotions, and learn to deal with stress in a way that serves you.

Join us this week as we’re showing you the effects of viewing stress negatively, and how you can change your mindset to use stress in a healthy way. The way you view stress in your life is hugely important, and we’re showing you how to tune into your thinking, pay attention to your feelings and learn to allow stress and other sensations to move through your body, enabling you to thrive in your life.

If you want to make a difference for either yourself and your career, or your team and your organization, be sure to reach out to us and sign up for coaching! We can come and do a book club or simply visit with your team! Don’t worry about physical limitations – we work really well virtually, too!

If you enjoyed the show, please share the podcast with your family and friends, or post a five-star review on iTunes. Rating and reviewing the show helps spread the word, which means less friction and suffering for everyone, and who doesn’t want that?

Learn More:

  • Some interesting research linked to stress.

  • How to view stress in a helpful way.

  • Why you should learn to feel your feelings.

  • Some ways to unpack your stress and manage it better.

  • The importance of giving yourself permission to be exactly how you are.

  • How your internal dialogue controls your internal stress.


Full Transcript:

CrisMarie: Welcome to The Beauty of Conflict, a podcast about how to deal with conflict at work, at home and everywhere else in your life. I am CrisMarie.

Susan: And I'm Susan.

CrisMarie: We run a company called Thrive Inc, and we specialize in conflict resolution, stress management coaching and building strong, thriving teams and relationships.

Susan: Now, we know, no one likes conflict, not even us and we’ve written two books on the topic. In our work over the last 20 plus years we’ve found most people avoid, manage or diffuse conflict. The problem is when you opt out of conflict in these ways you miss the creativity, the connection and the possibility that lies in conflict.

CrisMarie: We also know 2020 has been, well, let’s face it, a stressful year. And what Susan and I realized is all the tools that we’ve developed and utilized around conflict apply directly to uncertainty, which is what we’re living in now.

Susan: In this podcast we have tools; concept and interviews that will help you cope with the stress and uncertainty of conflict, of Covid, of social justice issues and, yes, even politics. We hope you’ll walk away from this episode with some fresh ideas that change your day, your week and even your life.

CrisMarie: Hi there. A couple of weeks ago we did a podcast on dealing with stress when stress won’t go away. And we think there’s more to the conversation. We’ve been doing work with clients with our Unpack Your Stress program both with organizations and teams. And we’ve also been coaching a lot of individuals who are just struggling with the stress of the time.

Susan: And let’s face it, we struggle with the stress of the time as well.

CrisMarie: We do. And we’re getting ready to do a whole organizational talk for the entire organization for a client of ours. And we’ve been getting some research and some more information. And today we wanted to have a conversation about it for you.

Susan: Yes, we want you to think about situations, reflect back on 2020. And kind of write down some of the stressors you have been dealing with, the stress of your business not doing well and the concern that you may have to shut down, the stress of not having a job.

CrisMarie: Or the stress that your business is going gangbusters and so you’re on meetings, video meetings from morning till night and you don’t have time to take care of yourself.

Susan: Or maybe you’ve lost a family member because of Covid or lost a family member not because of Covid. But you’re still dealing with that because you can’t have a memorial service or a service. These are some of the big stressors, or you are someone who’s been directly out there, protesting, working and for social justice. These are all just some of the stressors, big stressors that people are talking about.

Now, as you jot down what your stressors are, we want you just to think about when you’re looking at that list. So are you thinking stress is good for you or bad for you?

CrisMarie: I’m going to guess you’re thinking stress is bad for me and I should get rid of my stress. How can I get rid of my stress? That’s my thoughts.

Susan: Now, okay so let that go. Just move those stressors off to the side. And I want you to do a little different experience with me here. I want you to think about maybe when you got married, that special day. Or maybe it was when you had your first baby, your first child or you got a puppy. And for me if I think about the last time I got on a Peloton ride with Robyn and she was yelling at me, screaming at me to keep up and do the work, too much turkey. And I’m sitting there thinking this is great.

Now, think about those things that I just asked you to think about and in that scenario ask yourself the question and this is the stress good or the stress bad?

CrisMarie: Because we think so often stress how it impacts you and we’re going to talk about some studies about this is really how you think about it. And getting married, planning a wedding is never a stress free event but you have such a joy, hopefully, because you’re getting married or having a baby that you’re willing to go through it and it winds up being hopefully positive.

Susan: Or taking a Peloton ride, she didn’t add that one but it could be that one.

CrisMarie: There’s kind of a funny scenario, this comes up to me even when I’m shopping or I get a new appliance. I think great. It’s going to solve my problems. And then I have to actually figure out how to use the thing and that is a very stressful experience for me.

Susan: It is, or you’re so excited about what it’s going to be like, and then we just had a whole water system replacement. It was like this is going to be the most magnificent thing. The water really isn’t any different from our perspective day-to-day. There’s a little bit of a letdown in that.

CrisMarie: We spent a lot of money because we’re on a well, we need to, but really, we can’t tell the difference.

Susan: Yeah. We don’t get that joy of seeing that the water is totally different.

CrisMarie: So we really want to kind of echo what we were saying a couple of weeks ago is we really want you to separate the stress from the stressor. And the stress is inside of you. The stressor are those things that happen that you interpret and create stress inside of yourself.

Susan: Now, what we want to dive into now is some research.

CrisMarie: Before we do that I just want also, think about how you respond when you’re really stressed out. How do you know that you’re stressed? Is it that you have trouble sleeping? Is it that you eat more, or talk frantically, or move and get a lot of things done? Or is it your heart rate going or do you just feel anxious and jittery? What are your stress symptoms? We want you to be thinking about that as we’re going through this talk.

Susan: And you may look back at those things that we were just talking about, those stressors in 2020, what did you notice came up for you? I know some of the people I’ve talked to have some very kind of classic gut digestive issues, the things you were just mentioning. And then also look at those really positive things and think about what kind of symptoms and signs come up for you there that they’re stress. Because you might notice that there’s some similarities.

When I’m on my Peloton my heart is pumping fast just like it is when I’m feeling a little on the, you know, anxious about Covid. But I’m actually having a very different perspective to those two, when somebody isn’t wearing their mask I’m not quite as friendly as I am with Robyn. I might yell at Robyn on the Peloton, but I don’t even yell at the person who doesn’t have the mask but I sure want to. And there’s very different levels of how that stress shows up.

CrisMarie: So as we were doing our research we’ve known this TED Talk, Kelly McGonigal did a How to Make Stress your Friend. And we certainly encourage you to watch the whole TED Talk. We’re not going to talk about everything but she had some really powerful studies that she referenced that we thought were really helpful. And one was the – there is a study that tracked 30,000 adults in the US for over eight years and they asked them two questions at the start of the study. How much stress has been in your life this year? And they must have done this on a regular basis.

And then eight years later they looked at death records – no, two questions. How much stress has been in your life this year? And the second question is and do you believe stress is harmful to your health?

Susan: Notice those questions are very similar to the ones we asked you just a little while ago.

CrisMarie: How much stress are you under and do you think it’s harmful to your health? And then they looked at death records at the end. And what they found is that people who had a lot of stress had a 43% chance higher risk of dying, but only if they believed that stress was harmful to their health. Those that had that same high level of stress but did not believe stress was harmful to their health had zero increased risk of dying.

Susan: So now here is another thing to think about that with that. It’s not like all of a sudden you can just, no, stress doesn’t bother me, because that’s going to create a hell of a lot of stress in your system as well.

CrisMarie: That’s true.

Susan: You might suddenly be like how can I be that person? So don’t go there, we have some more good news for you.

CrisMarie: Yes. So there was another study, a Harvard study that Kelly referenced. And the idea, they studied the stress response. So we talked about when you’re responding to stress there’s some natural things as a human being that happen. Your heart rate goes up, you breathe faster. You may even perspire. And we usually think oh my gosh, I’m anxious, this is bad, this is really, really bad. And this Harvard study, what they discovered is when people interpreted those responses from their body as hey, this is my body preparing for me to meet this challenge, whatever challenge it is.

Susan: Thus the Peloton, I tell you, that’s exactly, you know, that’s what they’re always doing, meet this challenge. Or I think about skiing, when I get up on top of a hill that I have probably no business being on or maybe now I’ve gotten a little better. And I look down at it and I’m like, you know, it can take my breath away sometimes. Or I can go this is, [inaudible], this is cool; I’m going to get to try this hill, very different. And I ski very different depending on which one I think.

CrisMarie: That’s true, yeah. But when you do, the Harvard study found when people viewed their body as hey, this is my body preparing me for this challenge, they had less anxiety, less stress, were more confident and actually it impacted their physical stress response So what happens when you’re stressed out and your heart’s pumping and you’re thinking stress is bad, it’s like your arteries actually get tighter and tighter.

The difference is when you view stress as hey, this is my body helping me, those arteries actually stay open and it’s like your body responding to moments of courage. It has a whole different felt sense, it’s not bad for you and that’s just a mind frame, a reframe of hey, this is my body helping me versus oh my gosh, this is a stress response and I’m in trouble or I’m not going to be able, or this is bad.

Susan: So we find these studies really helpful in us beginning to look at this. And we’ll share one more just because it…

CrisMarie: She had a lot of great research in her talk.

Susan: She did.

CrisMarie: Go ahead. Do you want to share this one?

Susan: Yeah, I’ll take a study. I’m a reluctant scientist, researcher. I like to go back and look at, but I really like the experiential stuff much better. But this study did fascinate me. This was another one where there were 1,000 adults who they studied and who each reported life stressors. And they’re key life stressors that when you acknowledge them, like a death in the family or even a wedding, that kind of increase your risk of dying by 30% except in one situation.

For the people that also said that they were engaged in caring, and meaning, and purpose they did not have that 30% risk factor at all. So it wasn’t, this time it wasn’t their perspective on stress that switched it. It was that they were actually doing things that created connection, and caring, and community, and outreach.

CrisMarie: And that, what it does is it creates oxytocin which is actually a stress hormone. You’ve heard it called the cuddle hormone, but what it does is it – your body secretes it when you are under stress so that it drives you to make connections. And so this isn’t obligatory taking care of people, this is actually hey, I’m going to make my neighbors – I’m going to go help them because they’re stuck in their driveway in the snow.

And it’s that immediate like hey, I’m doing something good. I’m going to make them cookies because it’s fun, not because oh gosh, I’ve got to give out cookies to everybody in the neighborhood.

Susan: So I can see CrisMarie took over my study talk. I think I probably wasn’t doing as good a job of delivering the study information. But it’s okay, she got to that point that I think is important. You can’t just pretend to be a caring individual. These are these natural spontaneous things that people enjoy doing. It was kind of like when we talked, you know, when Covid happened and our business, everything we had planned went away. It wasn’t like we were like now we want to be in service. No. We were actually like we really want to be in service.

CrisMarie: We’ve got nothing to do.

Susan: And we really want to be in service and we want to use these ideas. And there was a whole different energy in that way of reaching out. And it made all the difference in the world. It didn’t make us more money at that time but it sure made all the difference in how we went about it.

CrisMarie: Yeah. We felt more connected. We started doing daily Facebook Lives. We had the new morning show and we started doing LinkedIn videos. And it was fun and we were learning and we were giving tips and tools. And so yeah, it was just felt like we can be of service. And people need a sense of meaning and purpose I think to feel like hey, I’m making a difference.

Susan: We’re going to move on here in a minute, because though we love this research we have some things we want to apply to it. But one of the things that Kelly McGonigal said was, “Stress gives us access to our hearts.” The compassionate heart finds joy and meaning in connecting to others. The pounding physical heart works hard to give you strength, energy and basically, courage. I think those are two really great points that we miss sometimes.

Now, go back with this perspective and look at what you faced in 2020. And see, you know, can you see where maybe that has? Have you actually used that to inspire your heart, to increase your heart?

CrisMarie: Yeah. And know that your body is helping you when you are stressed out. It’s trying to help you meet that challenge. And so we also want to give you a frame of how we all create stress in our lives, and how you can shift that stress to more helpful ways to work with it.

Susan: Yes, because when I was talking earlier about sometimes when you hear these studies you could just go to oh my god, I’m not doing it right. I should be someone who loves, who embraces stress, and freak yourself out. And I think that often happens. It’s like I should. We want to give you some ways because we actually believe, yeah, it’s great if you actually do shift your perspective. And we also believe you won’t always. So there will be times where that’s going to happen, and then times where it won’t and actually recognizing that choice point is critical.

So we want to frame it up with a – we’re going to talk about a little model we use in that.

CrisMarie: And this idea, it comes from The Haven and the idea of we all have our authentic self, our central energy, our soul, whatever we come in, that animates our physical being. And quite quickly because we’re little babies, we can’t take care of ourselves. We are taken care of by our caregivers. And we learn pretty quickly, hey, if I smile I get fed or I get picked up. So we start to look outside for what do I need to do to please this person so that I’m taken care of?

That sets us up to try to reach this ideal, because this continues on. How do I get straight A’s? How do I make a lot of money, get the promotion? It’s a version of the same thing. We’re trying to do something to please somebody outside of us so that we’ll feel safe.

Susan: And at some point in time we internalize all that language and we keep setting up ideals. I mean, CrisMarie, I’m sitting next to her, is the master of that in her Olympic efforts, let’s just say. Most Olympic athletes are.

CrisMarie: And it’s interesting, and I want you to start to tune in to your own thinking and how you motivate yourself. Because when I was training for the Olympics I wish I could say I was really nice. But I was really scaring myself, like if I don’t win the coach isn’t going to like me. Or I could flip it around and say, “Hey, if I do this really well, I’m going to get a lot of kudos.”

But notice how you motivate yourself to do things and that voice in your head. And a lot of times we’re not aware of that critic and how that harsh that internal critic can be. And we think we’ve got to do that, I’ve got to beat myself up to accomplish this goal, that’s the only way, if I don’t I’m not going to do anything.

Susan: And we may have even talked about this. We have a podcast on the weight of gold, specifically around your effort because that’s not uncommon. And we talk about this often and even at Haven they talk about it as the path of glory. There’s a lot of things, you people in the business world, a lot of executives I coach this is their path. And when they’re not on it well enough they just beat themselves up to do more.

CrisMarie: And it’s a striving path and it has a lot of perfectionism, people pleasing, approval seeking, it’s very serious and grinding. And you kind of ride right over yourself in order to keep yourself working towards this external goal.

Susan: Now, some of you may not recognize yourself in that. I sometimes have a hard time recognizing myself.

CrisMarie: Really?

Susan: Well, only when I’m on the bike or working out. But in general in my life, but where I can because there are other paths. I don’t always like to admit this but victim blame was my path. And what I mean by that is I will often spend a lot of time getting into feeling like I’m a victim to what’s happened to me. And that actually, really it’s the same path, it just looks a little different. I’m like, “They did this to me. This happened, that happened.”

CrisMarie: So you’re blaming somebody?

Susan: I’m blaming.

CrisMarie: And probably feeling helpless and like I’ve got to do this because they’re making me do it sort of thing?

Susan: I don’t even know if I’m as aware of the – there’s a lot of energy in just being a victim, believe it or not. So it’s not really taking me into that helplessness and despair, that’s kind of where I might give up altogether, I know the path.

CrisMarie: I do think people in organizations can sometimes feel like a victim, and it’s the organization is making us do this and I can’t do anything different. And I’ve got to keep this job. So they scare themselves into, I couldn’t find a new job. But they’re blaming the bosses or the organization and feeling like a victim.

Susan: Well, and sometimes you can be the person who’s the so called blamer and that’s also victim blamer on either side. So the bully could also be another version of that. I’ve heard my clients say this, “I cannot get good people, there’s no smart people. I don’t know. What happened to our school systems but I can’t hire.” I mean I’m exaggerating, so any of you that coach with me, it probably wasn’t you, don’t worry. But have this belief that there’s no way, it’s not my problem, it’s the people can’t do it.

But that’s the same energy in it and it’s all on the striving side. Now, there is a helpless and despair side that can go. And those people usually just kind of quit and withdraw and sort of give up. I think I’ve visited way too many of these paths in my life.

CrisMarie: Do you mean like when you had cancer?

Susan: I quit. Or I think a lot more for me was around where I thought I was stupid, where I didn’t know how to do things. One I think I shared once on here when I was really young, kind of my teacher sort of took me out of school because they found out I didn’t read and write correctly. And I think I was in a bit of despair after that. I really collapsed because I wanted to give up. Now, fortunately I found a path through that but, you know, and I know that place. I think I’ve talked about that, place of despair and it is feeling like I’m just going to quit.

Now, you can embark on that, go into really deep holes, people who have a depressive cycle can go into that for long periods of time. So it’s like I’m only bringing these up because if you didn’t recognize that path of glory, there’s some other paths you might be on that are kind of keeping you on what we refer as to as the striving side of this model.

CrisMarie: And they actually, the striving side, you’re not going to get rid of it by the way. We all strive in our different ways, path to glory, path to victim blame, path to helplessness. But what they do is they give you a sense of like I have no control, or I have to do this, this way, or I have no choice. And it’s that internal dialog inside your head that’s driving this that’s creating your internal stress.

Susan: And a big part of this is that you’re externally focused, notice, whether it’s the victim blame, helplessness or even the path of glory.

CrisMarie: Path of I’m trying to please or achieve for somebody else.

Susan: You’re really focused on the outside and that’s a key part of this striving thing.

CrisMarie: You’re seeking, how I can relate to it is seeking approval on the outside, love and approval.

Susan: Yeah. And now if you do that all the time, which most of us start to get into the pattern of doing. That creates a lot of different types of symptoms. And we’ve kind of talked about some of those things before. And the symptoms we were talking about earlier today show up in that, like physical symptoms, gut symptoms, can’t eat well, depression, anxiety.

CrisMarie: Trouble sleeping.

Susan: Overwhelmed, you notice the list that we’re describing all fits into some of the classic signs of being under stress.

CrisMarie: There are also addictions. I think alcohol sales have gone up a lot this year. But eating or working, working is a definite I don’t know what to do. Well, let me check my email because that will give me something to do. It’s a way to get away from yourself by focusing on this external piece. So you’re not really taking care of your stress inside, you’re kind of putting a band-aid over it.

Susan: Yes. And we think that the key is how to get to a different path. And the other path that is there and available, but not always easy to pick, it’s what we call thriving. Notice, [crosstalk].

CrisMarie: Pun intended.

Susan: Really is where we can – it can be a much more compassionate, a kinder – and generally it’s coming from the inside out. That’s really the key difference, instead of being focused on the outside you’re now kind of paying attention to the inside.

CrisMarie: And I do want to give a caveat. This is a learned skill because most of us have been really conditioned on that striving and the self-criticism side. And so it’s learning that it’s actually safe and important to give yourself a break and have compassion for yourself, even if other people don’t. And that really comes from one, being aware of when you’re beating yourself up, or not taking care of your own body, and overriding yourself on that striving side and go, “There I am again.” So that awareness of that.

And the other piece is really something that’s free, we’ve talked about it a lot, we have a podcast called Breathe, is to actually see if you can deepen your breathing, because a lot of times we’re doing life support or shallow breathing. And when you breathe deeper you come more inside your body, you come deeper into your body, so taking that time to do deeper breaths.

Susan: And the next one is giving yourself permission, allowing, recognizing, give yourself permission to not do it well, to make a mistake.

CrisMarie: To actually feel exactly how you’re feeling. This is a really big one for me because I’m always thinking I shouldn’t be feeling how I’m feeling. I should be enjoying this or I should be happy. And it’s using that same voice that criticizes, so saying it to yourself even out loud, “It’s okay that I’m frustrated. It’s okay that I’m exhausted. It’s okay that I don’t want to check my email, or that I do want to eat a whole loaf of bread.” Whatever it is, just giving yourself permission to be exactly how you are.

Susan: And then the key here is that any time you start to do that you gain some awareness, you take a deep breath. You give yourself some permission. You usually start to drop more into your body. And we think that dropping into your body is critical. And there’s ways to continue to make that even more accessible, do anything with your senses. When you go outside in nature, part of it is you start to smell fresh air.

CrisMarie: You see the beautiful trees and the sunset.

Susan: Yes. Now, you could also get some essential oils; smell them, if you have a dog.

CrisMarie: Cuddling with your pet.

Susan: Any of that, listen to music, those are all the things that awaken your senses. This is even true around the emotional piece. We always talk about feeling your feelings. A lot of times people don’t want to deal with feelings.

But really the best way to deal with feelings, I think they don’t want to deal with feelings because they have to deal with the story and then they get stuck in the story. They get stuck in, why am I crying versus just feel the sensations of those emotions and let that move through your body. Because that’s the way you’re going to get to that beginning, middle and end of an emotional arc that we talked about a couple of weeks ago in the Unpack Your Stress, which is critical to really allowing yourself to move and stay in the flow of life.

CrisMarie: I think another piece about emotions that people don’t like is one, we weren’t taught. We were kind of given negative feedback when we were emotional like, “Buck up. Rub some dirt in it”, is what I was told, “Rub some dirt in it, you’re okay, or you’re a crybaby.” And so we have some shame around and so we never learned how to have our emotions and be okay. But they are just energy moving through your body and they have, I think we talked about this before, a beginning, middle and end.

And what creates a lot of exhaustion, especially during this time is we get stuck in our feelings. They don’t actually complete. And it’s like being stuck in a tunnel and you kind of see this little light at the end. You don’t get that goodness, that light at the end until you actually go through the whole arc of the feeling and move it through your body.

So what Susan’s saying as far as breathing and allowing yourself to cry, or be frustrated, again anger, there’s so much taboo, especially for women about being angry. And really learning to own, there’s reasons for each of us to be angry. So let yourself stomp in that. And that’s another piece is moving your body is another great way to get into your body, to dance, or to walk outside, or to be on the Peloton.

Susan: And we’re bringing this up because here is the deal, we started off talking about that nice little authentic self you came in, and then you became this, you have all these ideals that you’re seeking after, there’s things you’re going after and you want. But the reality is we really sort of as human beings end up kind of snagged out in the middle. We’re not perfect, we don’t make it. We want to be the perfect parent but we’re the good enough parent. We want to be the perfect manager, or leader, or a business person and we’re okay.

CrisMarie: We want to be the perfect spouse or mother and you’re just, yeah, well you said parenting, but we’re just who we are and giving yourself permission to be okay that that is who you are.

Susan: And we believe that this idea that you’re always going to be moving, you’re going to go on the striving side. And that could take the form of any of those paths, there are going to be times when you are in your victim or blame. You’re going to be in your helplessness or despair. You’re going to be in your path to glory, that’s okay, it will actually take you places sometimes that are important to go to. But don’t get stuck there, realize that you can and are able to make the choice and shift. And that we think you can go to the striving side.

It’s not about making this thriving side your new ideal, that I think could be one of the problems that, you know, if you listened at the beginning, thinking okay, I am now going to always have the perspective that stress is good for me.

CrisMarie: That stress is good.

Susan: Bag that, that’s not actually going to be helpful to you.

CrisMarie: That’ll just put more pressure on you and create more stress.

Susan: Yes. So remember this is a journey, being a human, you’re going to do it all. You get to experience it all. You get to experience striving and thriving. You get to have your senses, and have your emotions, and go through the ups and downs.

CrisMarie: And just remember that the stress is not going to go away. Even if Covid, you know, things settle down, we as human beings, life is meant, we’re going to be met with aging, aging parents, sick kids, whatever it is life continues to happen. And so if you think about this time as hey, I get to learn these skills of how to work with and accept my stress and see, hey, this is my body preparing me to meet this challenge, and reaching out, and connecting with people even socially distant. Physically distanced, socially connected, that’s what I meant.

But think about it as an experiment because so often we get into this tight little space like oh my gosh, I just want to wait till this over. And realizing you’re kind of trying to wait till life is over. This all is a part of the process of us learning to be thriving human beings, the good, bad, the ugly and the beautiful.

Susan: Yes. So hopefully you have found this helpful today and I’ve enjoyed chatting with you about it. And taking ourselves through our arc of some of the things we’re learning, and adding, and developing into the way we work with stress with ourselves, stress with our clients, stress within organizations.

CrisMarie: And if you need help, please reach out because we are coaching several individuals on how to be more resilient in this time of stress. Or if you’d like us to speak to your organization or work with your team, we’re more than happy to. So you have a good week.

Thank you for listening to The Beauty of Conflict podcast. We know conflict, stress, and uncertainty can be hard to navigate. We want to support you becoming more aware of how stress shows up for you. Take our Thrive Stress Test and you'll get a report and resources to support you being more resilient, adaptable, and creative during these stressful times. Just go to our website and you'll see a yellow banner. Our website is That's

Susan: If you’ve enjoyed today’s podcast please take 30 seconds to give us as an iTunes review - an honest one. It helps get this show out to other people. Thanks again for listening. We hope you have a peaceful, productive, and beautiful day. Take care of yourself and we hope you’ll join us again for another episode.


CrisMarie Campbell and Susan Clarke

Coaches, Business Consultants, Speakers and Authors of The Beauty of Conflict

CrisMarie and Susan work leaders and teams, couples in business, and professional women.

They help turnaround dysfunctional teams into high performing, cohesive teams who trust each other, deal with differences directly, and have clarity and alignment on their business strategy so they create great results.

Download the eBook, How to Talk About Difficult Topics, today!

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