• Thrive Inc.

Are You Tired of COVID?

COVID has changed our lives and has brought a lot of additional stress to many of us. There have been financial and health impacts, but also a range of emotional challenges to work through. All of this comes on top of things we were already facing in our lives, and it’s left many of us feeling stressed and overwhelmed. We want things to go back to normal, but we’re realizing that this is the new normal, so we need to find a way to manage it.

Stress is universal, but how we experience it is personal. There are well-known symptoms such as fast heart rate, indigestion, and perspiration but there are also symptoms like a lack of patience, perfectionism, procrastination, and despair. In today’s episode, we’ll be discussing ways to recognize stress in your own life and sharing some effective, practical tips to help you get out of your mind, and connect with your body.

Tune in this week where we’ll discuss why stress shows up in a variety of ways and how tuning in with your emotions will enable you to cope with stress more effectively. We’ll talk about our own experiences with stress and share some practical ways to cope on a mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual level. Get ready to learn how to feel more alive, peaceful, and engaged amidst all the life challenges we’re currently facing!


If you want to make a difference for either yourself and your career, or your team and your organization, be sure to reach out to us and sign up for coaching! We can come and do a book club or simply visit with your team! Don’t worry about physical limitations – we work really well virtually, too!


If you enjoyed the show, please share the podcast with your family and friends, or post a five-star review on iTunes. Rating and reviewing the show helps spread the word, which means less friction and suffering for everyone, and who doesn’t want that?


Listen on Apple Podcast | Stitcher | Spotify


Learn More:

  • Why you might be feeling fed up with everything going on right now.

  • Some effective tools you can use to support yourself in stress.

  • The importance of taking a break.

  • How your behavior might be a sign of stress.

  • The importance of allowing yourself to feel negative emotions.

  • Why your feelings are a choice.

  • How to be more compassionate to yourself.

  • Why you may be cutting yourself off from your emotions more than you realize, and how to stop!


Resources:


Full Transcript:



CrisMarie: Welcome to The Beauty of Conflict, a podcast about how to deal with conflict at work, at home and everywhere else in your life. Hi, I'm CrisMarie.


Susan: And I'm Susan. We run a company called Thrive, and we specialize in conflict resolution, communication and building strong, thriving teams and relationships. Conflict shows up in our lives in so many ways. Most people, unfortunately, are not very good at handling conflict. Most people have never been taught the right tools for dealing with conflict, and then it leads to unnecessary friction, arguments, passive aggressive emails, tears, hurtful comments, stuck-ness, all kinds of things we don't want. We're on a mission to change all of that.


CrisMarie: We've spent the last 20 years teaching our clients how to handle conflict in a whole new way. We're here to show you that conflict doesn't have to be scary and overwhelming. With the right tools, you can turn a moment of conflict into a moment of reinvention. Conflict can pave the way into a beautiful new system at work, a new way of leading your team, a new way of parenting, a new chapter of your marriage where you feel more connected than ever before. Conflict can lead to beautiful things.


Are you tired of Covid?


Susan: Well, let’s just say we are.


CrisMarie: I sure am. You might also be tired of wearing masks or your kids being home or even social justice issues, it’s not just Covid now, we have social justice. And we’re on the eve of our election, the next three months is going to be all about that.


Susan: Yes. And not to mention that we still have major issues with our economy. On a global level we are constantly tense and at odds with most countries, many won’t even let us in anymore. So we have a lot going on that, frankly, does give us cause to be concerned.


CrisMarie: And even – so those are the big pictures but you also, you may have struggled, you may have gotten Covid. Somebody you love may have gotten Covid. Or financially you may have been impacted, maybe there is a loved one who actually got laid off or you’re a business owner and you’re desperately trying to keep it afloat.


Susan: Or you’re in a business that is actually doing well and you are working more hours than you ever did from home because you happen to be at the office at 5:00am and 10:00pm.


CrisMarie: Because your office is your home.


Susan: Yes. These are just some of the things that we are facing on a regular day-to-day basis now.


CrisMarie: Even if you have, you’re coming up to the school year and you’ve got kids at home. And maybe schools are going to open, maybe the kids are going to go one day a week but you have to manage maybe home schooling while also doing your work from home.


Susan: Right. And if I kind of look at any more variations on mask, it’s amazing to me the number of different types of mask you could have, then there’s the whole people that don’t wear a mask and my level of frustration with that. The things that are creating just a lot of spin and not to mention just the regular things, I have an aging mother who during Covid her dementia kicked up big time because she was isolated.


CrisMarie: Is isolated.


Susan: Is isolated, although we found a way, she’s actually learned how to use Zoom, which has been helpful in kind of a fun way to reconnect her.


CrisMarie: That was a whole process, folks, just let me tell you, teaching Bernie Zoom.


Susan: And I have two sisters, the three of us talking on the phone on a regular basis to figure that out, and the desire to use Houseparty or FaceTime or Zoom. I’m like, “Why don’t we use the easiest one?” But, no. So, needless to say there are all sorts of stressors that are in your world in some fashion, some more, for some dominantly than others.


CrisMarie: And we keep wanting it to go back to normal, but as we are now coming to the reality that this is our new normal with having Covid in our world and working remotely in many situations.


Susan: And probably really, I think what comes foreground to me more than anything else is what really is front and center for us is this notion that we really – there’s a lot of uncertainty. We used to believe that we had things under control and there was some level of certainty and we could predict. That has been shattered, not just individually, but on a global level.


CrisMarie: And I think the United States, if you’re in the United States or Canada, but we’ve prided ourselves on, we can do this, we’re individuals, we can make things happen. And it’s really confronting when we can’t, with that helplessness, I can’t power over Covid. I can pretend it’s not there and I’m likely going to get sick.


Susan: And we realized one of the things that because of the work we’ve been doing just to kind of keep ourselves current, and relevant, and with an income, has been focusing on this idea of how to help and support people with this uncertainty. And to be able to deal with stress, and that’s also led us to our third book which is going to be The Beauty of Conflict Within.


CrisMarie: So just even thinking about you, take a moment right now and think about how does stress show up for you? Because we’re all in stress, but we respond very differently, so there are some people that you can tell you have stress because you have a fast heart rate. Or you have indigestion, or you have a shortness of breath, those are some physical signs. Excess perspiration when you shouldn’t be perspiring.


Susan: Or even talking super fast.


CrisMarie: Yeah, are signs of stress moving fast, eating fast. Yours might be you get impatient, you get impatient with yourself if you can’t do something, or your spouse or somebody else who’s not doing things fast enough.


Susan: Or like me, upset with the people not wearing their mask or staying six feet away, it shows up in various ways.


CrisMarie: Or you’re just, you’re trying to make a task perfect and you can’t, or even you’re avoiding certain tasks, or you just, things seem to take longer for you to get things done. Those are some signs of stress in patience, anger, perfectionism, because that perfectionism is one of mine, where if I can get control over this it’ll give me some sense of – I don’t know – that I’m in control when I’m really not.


Susan: I know one of the things that this experience in the last six months has really kind of made me realize is that – because I’ve always been someone who’s had sort of an intense personality, would you say?


CrisMarie: Yes, I would say that.


Susan: A little bit of a hot streak, a bit reactive. And what I’ve learned is that really I think I have been reactive and angry because underneath it when I’ve really dropped in, and I’ve had to really drop in during these months, has been this despair. I don’t have a lot of faith in humanity sometimes.


CrisMarie: That’s pretty significant that you don’t have faith in humanity.


Susan: I know, I mean people think of me as someone who has a pretty strong life force.


CrisMarie: You do.


Susan: Which I do. And there’s any time you have those peaks, you have those valleys, so as high as I can go and I can also go pretty low. And I really had to learn that a lot of times when I’m in my rage or anger, underneath it is this sense of I just want to quit. And that has been something that’s been a struggle to really, one, acknowledge because you’ll often say to me, “You need to refrain.”


CrisMarie: Well, you can’t go there, it’s too threatening to me if you feel despair.


Susan: And yeah, I’ve also really gotten that that is a big part of what I call my kind of landscape of my emotions and one…


CrisMarie: This is, by the way, you should say who you are because some listeners don’t know our names.


Susan: I’m Susan.


CrisMarie: And I’m CrisMarie.


Susan: That probably comes from various points in time in my life. And when I was in my 20s dealing with my cancer, I really, you know, there was a lot of – I wasn’t able to get control of that and…


CrisMarie: What, you weren’t able to get control of?


Susan: Well, my doctors were basically like, “We have nothing, you don’t have long to live.” And I remember in my wrestling with that, I really had to come up with alternative ways and deeply, find a way to deeply believe in them. So a lot of my studies during my seven years of dealing with cancer has had to do with more mind body approaches, energetic approaches, spiritual ideas.


Going back and training with two medical doctors who really offered me the chance to see through a lens of Chinese medicine. Looking at things through breath and energy, looking at trauma, looking at a variety of different ways of working with my own psychology, and finding a path through it. But I do remember one of my mentors saying to me years later when I kind of got myself back on the path of no longer dying of cancer said, “I never understood where you got the will to live from.”


I think that was part of how I got the will to live was to investigate, explore, learn, train, it’s when I got my master’s, it’s when I went to…


CrisMarie: What was your master’s in?


Susan: Applied behavioral sciences.


CrisMarie: And what is that?


Susan: Family systems, working with family systems, organizational systems. I also got, you know, went through integrative body psychotherapy. I did various mind and body training through the Haven and their whole extensive 10 years of, you know, six years, I guess, of getting my degree from there.


CrisMarie: So it sounds like first you actually had your own experience of, one, being at the brink of death, and having to – because you didn’t have other people to help you from the medical model, to really discover what worked for you. And then you went and got the education to help other people.


Susan: Yeah. And constantly – because that was the one thing I could do, explore from different ways of thinking, different perspectives, different medical perspectives, psychological perspectives, spiritual, philosophical. And that actually gave me the meaning that I was searching for to kind of keep going, because if I didn’t do that I could feel that sense of dropping into that despair. And I think my life got full enough and busy enough that I was engaged in a lot of different things. But this experience of Covid has brought back up just how deep that track can run.


CrisMarie: So, Susan, how do you deal with that sense of despair now through the Covid experience?


Susan: Well, I’d say one thing, in spite of how you feel about it, is letting myself, you know, I had to really recognize that’s what’s coming up, because it could manifest itself as me being sort of in my either reactivity or my procrastination, or my sense of hopelessness.


CrisMarie: That’s how stress shows up for you.


Susan: Yeah, that’s how it would show up. I learned helplessness, I shouldn’t say hopelessness, in that, you know, I can’t do this, I don’t know how to do this. Versus wait a minute, what’s underneath that? And then I’d feel that sense of despair.


CrisMarie: And what happens when you actually let yourself, Susan, feel that sense of despair rather than – because your symptoms are, I love how you described it, procrastination or what was the other one?


Susan: Learned helplessness or getting reactive. Those are my three go to’s. And I know in those situations that I actually need to do some form of breath work, energetic work to drop into my emotional field. And so that’s one thing. I’ve learned a broad range because I’m so…


CrisMarie: Of tools.


Susan: Of tools for working with breath in the body. And then allowing myself to, what I call, touch the trauma and come back. That was something I learned that in working with trauma is really critical. Not so much to deep dive into your trauma, but to learn that you can touch it and then come back, because if you learn that route then you can actually get more comfortable being in the feeling more.


CrisMarie: I know that you have helped me; kind of you’ve stood with me when I am in my wobble, and helped me kind of touch it and come back and create. And how do you work with your clients when you’re coaching them?


Susan: Really, well, one, giving them more permission to explore what may seem like, okay, this can’t be good, it can’t be good for me to explore despair, or how much I want to quit right now. And I’m kind of like, no, it actually is helpful to talk about that, to allow yourself to recognize that’s a choice, even if it’s – when you’re being trained to work with suicide. You get trained, you get told, make them sign a contract. And I always thought that was the most insane thing, because first off, if I really was suicidal, signing that contract wasn’t going to make any difference. But what I really…


CrisMarie: And you have personal knowledge of this.


Susan: Yeah. And when I’ve worked with highly suicidal people, what I’ve found is when they believe that I still hold them as able and that I think, okay, I want you to tell me about how, what you’re going to do, what’s going on. How you’re going to choose to do it. And I don’t say they can’t, I just say, “Yeah, that’s a choice, I hope you don’t make it.”


CrisMarie: Susan, that’s really powerful to hold, and I think that might really shock people, that you would hold them as able and actually have them talk about it. But I guess it makes sense because if it’s spinning around in my mind and I’m not talking about it, I’m probably more likely to be acting on it versus if I confide with you. Well, this is why. This is what I’m thinking about. And you’re holding me as able, so you’re not telling me I can’t.


Susan: Right. And I’m also saying, “I know this is uncomfortable, explore that discomfort. And I’m going to be here right with you.” That’s the other thing that I think we often make the mistake of is because of our own discomfort we want to fix it for somebody else. And 90% of the time, probably 99, we can’t fix it.


CrisMarie: Well, and I think actually, that’s so hard for us to learn, I know for myself, CrisMarie, that I want to control it, fix it, make it better and that’s kind of just covering up what the other person, versus being there listening, having empathy, which is really the most transformational. Because people, all of us want to feel seen and heard for what we’re experiencing in this moment, and to know that somebody else is there, we’re not alone.


Susan: Yeah. And to also recognize that people can give you a path and provide you – we’re going to talk in a few minutes about things you can be doing to support yourself in stress. But we also, you know, because that’s – if you can begin to experiment and try them then you can figure out what works for you.


CrisMarie: Now, I, CrisMarie, have a very different experience, so you go to despair or reactivity. I go to what can I control? How can I make myself better? How can I make you better?


Susan: And how can she make me better? [crosstalk].


CrisMarie: Exactly. So when I’m faced with uncertainty, and this is from my Olympic experience, I learned so many tools to how to control me and my body, my psyche, so that I could perform. And I, when I was in one of those suicidal, because I couldn’t perform and this was on our Weight of Gold. I was injured, it was like Covid. I couldn’t make myself row. That’s when I dipped into that suicidal place, and I had nobody to talk to or hold me as able. So those are hard times, when somebody who can control, I was able to control my body and be successful until I couldn’t.


But the tools that I learned as an Olympic athlete, and then when I went and got my MBA and worked at Arthur Andersen. And started coaching executives who were trying to control everything, one, I recognized that there was a lot of tools that I learned organically about how to calm myself in those high stress situations. And see things from a different perspective so that I could keep getting in the boat and rowing. And develop that resiliency in the process as opposed to burning myself out.


Susan: Yeah. And I think what’s kind of cool is that what you learned there’s now the science that you’ve also studied, because she has – the other thing about CrisMarie is that she actually does want to fully understand it, in terms of the exploring.


CrisMarie: Yeah, they have all the like the Polyvagal theory, so I’ve become a certified master coach, a mind body coach. I’ve done the nine days, all these different things that science has backed up now what I naturally organically was playing around with and discovering in my own body and psyche.


Susan: And I always have to kind of limit her from going too far into the science of that even though maybe sometimes we should.


CrisMarie: Well, and even when I’m working with clients, there’s so many ways in. And we’re going to talk about the tools that we use with clients, because there’s things that you can use at a mental level to support yourself, at a physical level to support yourself, at an emotional level and also a spiritual level. So I want you to think about that, listeners, what is going on for you mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually? And how do you right now support yourself in those different areas?


Sometimes it’s helpful to break it down to look at, one, your self-stress, and your self-care, because stress is really personal. We have these global stress events but how we experience them is very personal, we all have our own styles and how we put the world together. And stress isn’t always bad. Now, this is a lot of stress.


Susan: It’s a sort of an interesting – what you just described, creating your own body compass in terms of mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically. And recognize – this is Susan – that body compass. But also I’m a more universal person. So I was just thinking when you said it, what kind of – take the big picture of the world and sort of do the same breakdown, physically what’s happening, mentally what’s happening.


CrisMarie: Emotionally.


Susan: Emotionally what’s happening, spiritually what’s happening, because I can kind of look at the themes on our planet, everything from global warming to Covid, to what’s out here, politics, ideas around religion, theory. You could put them into different categories.


CrisMarie: You can take more of a universal focus, I would take.


Susan: Well, what I know is when I start to look at the universal themes, they will be showing up in my life either in or out of balance. And so it actually helps me take that universal path and come into how is that showing up in my life.


CrisMarie: Give me one example where Covid is showing up, or I guess you can easily say how that’s showing up in your life.


Susan: The physical ones show up. But okay, so emotionally I can look at our polarization around politics, the right, wrong. And I underlying that think a huge dimension of that is our inability to allow ourselves to feel emotionally. The outrage is simply a bottled up layer of emotion that people don’t, you know, I think white supremacy and I think we have learned to cut ourselves off from our body and our emotions. And we’ve made it a systemic issue.


CrisMarie: This is CrisMarie, I can think about Black and white thinking, we get into that polarization and that Black and white thinking. And I know from the work that I’ve done inside of me, any time I’m caught in black and white thinking, I’m actually identified with some part of me that’s very young, that wants to get control over things, that doesn’t have the capacity to see bigger picture. But that’s an arrested development part of me, when we get into that black and white thinking, when I do.


Susan: Yes. I mean you’ve gone to it from a developmental [inaudible], which is one dimension of that. You could go to it from an emotional point too, what are the emotional planes that don’t show up in that? What are the spiritual, where are the religion and spirituality that has broken that off?


CrisMarie: Even white supremacy, thinking that another race is less than is a spiritual divide versus more having that universal love and oneness and that we’re all equal as human beings.


Susan: And you could, if you play with that one enough you begin to see why does somebody need to separate and hate, or feel better than another race? Usually because of their own sense of inadequacy. So even though white supremacy sounds tough, underneath it is a lot of insecurity.


CrisMarie: And insecurity, like I want to grab all the money and all the toys and I want to grab my eggs and take care of me, because I don’t trust that I will be taken care of, that’s kind of also another spiritual divide.


Susan: Yeah. And because we don’t quit dropping into those deeper levels, it remains a battle at the top. And so we’re talking about this because there’s that big global picture. But this actually comes right back down into us as individuals, we have that same dynamic going on in some fashion.


CrisMarie: Yeah. And the same thing, I have more of a relation – this is CrisMarie. I have more of a relational lens, and so you didn’t actually share this. But when I’m upset or feel like the world’s not working out, I look to Susan because she’s – I’m in a relationship with her, and I blame her. She’s the source of my problems. And if only she would change then I would feel okay. And I don’t know Susan, if that happens for you universally, if you tend to blame, I was kind of giving you a softball then.


Susan: Yes, I tend to blame big global pictures. When I’m driving erratically and pissed off at drivers, I don’t tend to blame myself or even the other driver, I just think the roads have been poorly designed and there’s not enough stop lights. And I go bigger, big.


CrisMarie: Versus I blame you because you’re yelling in the car and I don’t want to hear it. If you could just be quiet then I’d be okay. So just even things for yourselves, do you tend to have a big picture? Do you tend to blame out externally? Do you blame your partner? Or the other piece is individually, do you tend to blame yourself, does it implode inside, well, if only I were smarter, prettier, whatever, quicker, then I’d be okay?


Susan: And here’s the thing, we’re starting off, because we want to shift now and give you some practical ways you can work with these different things. But the key first is to have some permission to let yourself begin to look at the good, the bad, the ugly of this because I think that’s critical. And I’m Susan.


CrisMarie: And so I just want Susan to actually say my name, she never does and so you guys don’t know who’s talking.


Susan: We’re experiencing this as we talk because CrisMarie is writing very frantically telling me.


CrisMarie: I love you and this is what’s going on, so, CrisMarie.


Susan: So let’s dive into some of these areas.


CrisMarie: Good job, so some of the – we want to give you some tools. So at the mental level one of the things you may not realize is we are always – our brain, because of survival focus is really pumping out a lot of negative thoughts all the time. And you don’t have to believe those negative thoughts, they are not true. And we tend to think, if my brain’s saying it, it’s true. So we want you to turn up the awareness, you can put a timer on your watch and every hour notice, what am I telling myself. It’s kind of like eavesdropping on your mind.


You might be saying, “You’re too lazy, you’re not good enough, you’ve got to hurry up, they’re going to be mad at you.” These are some of my thoughts.


Susan: And so being able to track your thoughts and pay attention to them, again, as best you can without a huge amount of judgment. That might be hard especially if you’re thinking about your thoughts. But write those down too. And then there’s lots of ways you can work with – and we spend a lot of time in our coaching working on this. And there’s everything from thought work to sort of turnaround the thought to question the thought.


CrisMarie: It’s even reframing if you think have I gained weight, which I have. I could say, “Oh my God, I’m disgusting, I’m fat.” Or, “No, I’m not, I’m heavier than I want to be and I’m being choiceful about my eating and I’m increasing my exercise and I’m doing the best I can,” much more compassionate.


Susan: Or even I think about what I was saying to you, I tend to sometimes want to, you know, I have some despair about humanity. So if I recognize that I don’t trust people because of the level of hatred I see. I don’t think that’s ever going to change. I can find evidence to where do I trust someone, who do I trust? What does that look like? Versus staying in the fixed place of humanity is going down.


CrisMarie: So the challenge or opportunity for you is to notice your thoughts. And I bet if you put a timer on, and you’re going to have some repetition in your thoughts, because they – mine is, I’m going to be late, somebody’s going to be mad at me. So just notice what your thoughts are. So that’s at the mental plane.


At the physical plane we often, especially now with Zoom and team meetings, we are kind of going non-stop, some of you that are working a lot. And we don’t actually give ourselves room to take breaks, just breaks where you take 15 minutes, go outside, because you can right now. Look at the birds, the trees, anything to help slow down your fast paced mind and settle your nervous system.


Susan: And even if you can’t go outside, take a nap, there’s, The Powerful Engagement is a great book, about athletes and I’m sure you can relate to this. But with tennis players, they noticed that what happened in that one minute break was so critical to their ability. So, CrisMarie, I mean I imagine even for – you don’t get a one minute break in your rowing thing. But in tennis you always have between the games that one minute where you’re sitting there.


And if you watch tennis, watch the players because you can tell the difference. Some of them just, you can tell, they’re not thinking about what they just did. They just stop everything for that minute and those are usually the ones who win, and they’ve found that to be true.


CrisMarie: Versus the ones that are analyzing, I shouldn’t have done that, I should do this next. Those actually stayed in a stressful state and will not perform in the long run.


Susan: They also make a reference to the world leaders, Winston Churchill, I guess, was known for his naps, so does John F. Kennedy. And how often do you take a nap? I mean we might take more now because of Covid, but probably not, and it may be that’s okay to do.


CrisMarie: Because you might have a belief, no, I’ve got to keep going, I’m not productive, because that has become one of our themes in our culture is I’ve got to, got to, got to, and it’s not very helpful.


Susan: And you guys know how I love horses. If you ever go out and watch horses in a pasture, they spend a lot of time just…


CrisMarie: Standing.


Susan: Just standing.


CrisMarie: So that’s on the physical dimension. Then we’ve got a lot more tools, we’re just giving you some little tidbits that you can use.


Susan: Today.


CrisMarie: Yeah, exactly. The other dimension is emotions, and we know a lot of people are like, “Don’t talk about feelings, feelings are dangerous,” even me with your despair.


Susan: And a lot of times you may not even realize how much you are cutting yourself off from your emotions.


CrisMarie: Emotions are actually natural healthy, and we have not been taught to feel them, to identify and work with them. And that’s a lot of what we do in when I coach somebody is dropping in and learning how not to be washed away with your feelings, but to work with them.


Susan: So some simple things, I mean music is a huge way to begin to become more comfortable with a range of emotion. Finding music that expresses anger that has a rhythm or a beat to it, that you’re comfortable enough to hear that can let you tap into your own sense of anger and outrage. Could also be your love and your lyrical, there’s things – Gabrielle Roth does the 5 rhythms which are just looking at distinct rhythms in music, they’re also acquainted to some emotional play.


CrisMarie: Another thing, if you’re kind of like I’m just, you know, you’re kind of on more of the sad spectrum but you can’t let yourself cry because it feels too vulnerable. Just put on a movie that you know you’re going to cry. I think Lovesong or Brian’s Song, one of those.


Susan: Okay, that might be a bit – [crosstalk] for the big beat, but, you know, or, you know, I just kind of like Terms of Endearment.


CrisMarie: That’s true.


Susan: I mean which is actually, yeah; I don’t need to tell that story.


CrisMarie: Find a movie that is emotional that you then naturally cry and you don’t feel uncomfortable doing it. And it’ll let you move that, your energy easily.


Susan: And even you may notice a lot of children’s themes have, you know, Lilo & Stitch, you can watch that but it actually does talk about her emotions. She’s a very emotional being, Stitch is a very reactive. I really love Lilo & Stitch; I think it’s a great movie.


CrisMarie: The other thing that you see kids doing which is simple is just coloring or doodling. Let yourself, is another way to let yourself move the energy and it’s simple and you can do it in a meeting. So now let’s go to the last dimension that we’re going to talk about today which is spiritual. And we’re not talking religious, we’re just talking spiritual, which means kind of connecting to something larger than ourselves.


Susan: And there are many ways. I mean I know for myself, a big aspect of that happens when I go out in nature. CrisMarie, what about you, what brings that up for you?


CrisMarie: Well, it’s actually recognizing, because I can get into the place where I think it’s all on my shoulders, I feel overly responsible, I’ve got to make it happen. And recognizing you know what, I’m just not that powerful and turning it over to something larger than myself is a way to let go of my responsibility, which is so crushing energetically.


Susan: And I think we think of religion as the solution, versus spirituality. And that is a key different – I remember when I visited in Europe, and there’s many cathedrals and churches and all sorts of things. And I remember, I could walk in – I’m not really a religious person. But there were ones I could walk in where just I felt cold and separated, and there’s no life here. And then there were these other ones where it was I could walk in and my heart would expand. And that’s when I really got; there is a difference between religion and spirituality.


CrisMarie: So, Susan, these are empty cathedrals?


Susan: Yeah. I mean there might be people in there, there might be somebody up praying. I assume churches are often left open, or at least they seem to be there. So you have to find where do you feel that sense of – I don’t want to compare churches to coffee shops, but I will, I mean just because I dare to go there. But there are times when I can walk into a coffee shop or a place and I just have this felt sense of expansion, people are connecting to each other, the kids are in the play area, whatever’s happening.


And then there are times when I walk in and it feels very cold and tight and there’s…


CrisMarie: People are angry.


Susan: Or it’s clangy, too much energy. But that’s kind of, to me gives me the rhythm of when is it in that expansion and openness? And when is it in just painfully loud and difficult?


CrisMarie: So right now you may not be able to – if you are a part of church, you may not be able to go there on Sunday with everybody because of social distancing. But maybe the building is still open and you can go on a Wednesday by yourself, socially distance and do your prayer or meditation.


Susan: Because bring that part of yourself, because there’s – and there’s all sorts of apps to support you. And mindfulness seems to be our word that we like better than spirituality. But really they’re talking the same thing, helping you tap into a larger sense of reconnect, remember, come back to a sense of wholeness.


CrisMarie: And it’s really about getting out of your mind, because your mind is where you scare yourself, and connecting more to your body, being present in the moment because that’s the only place we have to impact. So hopefully these tools are helpful. If you need more help we are each available for one-on-one coaching, and do it quite a lot. And help people regain a sense of their own agency in this time of uncertainty and stress, so that you can feel more alive, peaceful, engaged, even amidst all this.


Susan: All these differences, all these challenges, all these opportunities to come back to a sense of wholeness and fullness, not just separation.


CrisMarie: Because you will see more opportunities when you drop into that sense of connection to yourself. Okay.


Susan: Alright, thank you.


CrisMarie: If you want to learn more about what we discussed today, or how to deal with conflict more effectively, Susan and myself, CrisMarie are both available for individual one-on-one coaching. We also offer couples coaching, which now as we live and work 24/7 together, maybe more important than ever.


Susan: We continue to do our team facilitation, both live and now virtually. Let’s get real, until you’ve had a tough conversation over Zoom, you may not be building the trust you need on your team. For the next couple of months we are offering free virtual trainings to organizations. Our goal is to support you, your team and your business, both at work and at home during this pandemic.


CrisMarie: Right now you can find short videos on my, CrisMarie’s LinkedIn and Facebook with tips, tools and inspiration. To contact us, email thrive@thriveinc.com, that’s t.h.r.i.v.e@t.h.r.i.v.e.i.n.c.com.


Susan: Okay, stay safe, stay healthy and remember, together we’re better and stronger.


CrisMarie: Take care.

CrisMarie Campbell and Susan Clarke


Coaches, Business Consultants, Speakers and Authors of The Beauty of Conflict

CrisMarie and Susan work leaders and teams, couples in business, and professional women.

They help turnaround dysfunctional teams into high performing, cohesive teams who trust each other, deal with differences directly, and have clarity and alignment on their business strategy so they create great results.

Connect with CrisMarie and Susan on LinkedIn.

Watch their TEDx Talk: Conflict – Use It, Don’t Defuse It!

Order their new book The Beauty of Conflict for Couples: Igniting Passion, Intimacy, and Connection in Your Relationship.


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