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Inclusion: Interview with Jason Patent and Grace Michel

Updated: Nov 9, 2023

Inclusion is the big topic of this episode!

We are happy to have over two of CrisMarie’s most recent mentors: Jason Patent and Grace Michel. They both work at the Robertson Center for Intercultural Leadership at Berkeley. Their extensive knowledge of diversity, equity, and inclusion has an international and broad perspective. Within the CIL programs, they want people to become a champion towards inclusion. They both agree that vulnerability is the start of the healing journey.

Tune in and get involved with CIL!

About Jason Patent

Jason D. Patent, Ph.D., Director of the Robertson Center for Intercultural Leadership (CIL), has been involved in international and intercultural education for 30 years, both as an organizational leader and as a consultant, coach, and trainer. Jason has served as American Co-Director of the Hopkins–Nanjing Center for Chinese and American Studies in Nanjing, China; Inaugural Director of the Stanford Program in Beijing; Management Consultant at Gap International; Training Consultant at Cartus, ITAP International, IOR Associates, and Dean Foster Associates; and Vice President, Communications & Marketing at Orchestrall, Inc. Fluent in Mandarin, Jason has a B.A. in East Asian Studies from Harvard, an M.A. in the same field from Stanford, and an M.A. and a Ph.D. in Linguistics from U.C. Berkeley.

About Grace Michel

Grace Michel, M.A. is an Intercultural Training Specialist for the Robertson Center for Intercultural Leadership (CIL). She is an experienced facilitator and educator with a deep commitment to building a more inclusive, just, and peaceful world. She has extensive experience in intercultural education, leadership development, and peacebuilding, and has worked primarily as a trainer/facilitator, program director, and consultant. Prior to joining CIL, Grace worked in Myanmar where she designed teacher training and curriculum to promote peaceful coexistence and conducted education policy research. Previously, she served as the Assistant Director of the Center for Peace and Commerce at the University of San Diego, encouraging social entrepreneurship and responsible business as a force for positive social impact. Grace also worked for three years in Peru as a community educator and international service-learning program director. Grace received an M.A. in Peace and Justice Studies and a Certificate in Peace and Global Education from the University of San Diego, and a B.A. in International Relations from Claremont McKenna College.

If you’d like us to speak at your organization about conflict, stress, team-building, or leadership, work with your team virtually, or coach you or leaders on your team, reach out to us!

If you enjoyed the show, please share the podcast with your family and friends, or post a five-star review on iTunes. Rating and reviewing the show helps spread the word, which means less friction and suffering for everyone, and who doesn’t want that?

Key Take-Aways

  • CIL is part of International House at UC Berkeley.

  • The challenge nowadays is always money versus people or results versus people.

  • Inclusion leads to better business results.

  • When there’s a sense of belonging in a company or brand, employees and customers will be truly faithful.

  • Not understanding different communication styles may end up in conflict and prejudice.

  • In situations where two people don’t agree on how things are being done, there’s a space of possibility that will lead to growth.

  • Humanity is complex and never single-sided.

  • Recognizing our own shadow is the first step to understanding privilege.

  • Discomfort is informative.


  • Connect with Jason on LinkedIn here

  • Connect with Grace on LinkedIn here

  • Check out Michael Phelps’s film “The Weight of Gold” on HBO here

  • Discover more about the ​​CIL here

  • Reach out to CIL at


CrisMarie Campbell and Susan Clarke

Coaches, Business Consultants, Speakers and Authors of The Beauty of Conflict

CrisMarie and Susan work with leaders and teams, couples in business, and professional women.

They help turnaround dysfunctional teams into high-performing, cohesive teams who trust each other, deal with differences directly, and have clarity and alignment on their business strategy, so they create great results.

Download the eBook, How to Talk About Difficult Topics, today!

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