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  • Writer's pictureThrive Inc.

Cleaning Up the Trash: Effective Communication with Saul Marquez

Welcome back to the podcast, we have an amazing guest with us this week, Healthcare Executive and Media Influencer Saul Marquez. For the last decade, Saul has been a leader at well-known companies like Stryker Orthopaedics and Medtronic, and is the founder of the Outcomes Rocket Podcast, which has over 600 interviews published to date and a following of 70,000 listeners a month!

Healthcare is an industry where there’s a lot of stress, especially during current times, and there is a huge lack of communication between stakeholders. Saul joins us this week to talk about how he uses his passion for helping people in the medical world communicate more effectively to improve outcomes and business model success.

Tune in this week where we’ll discuss the importance of effective communication and how this can help business leaders deliver messages and value more effectively to customers. We’ll consider the importance of feedback and honest communication and the importance of speaking to clients in a language they understand!

If you want to learn how to deal with conflict more effectively, as always, we are both available for individual one on one and couples coaching. For the next couple of months, we are also offering free virtual training to organizations. Our goal is to support you, your team, and your business both at work and at home during this pandemic. Get in touch with us to find out more!

If you enjoyed the show, please share the podcast with your family and friends, or post a five-star review on iTunes. Rating and reviewing the show helps spread the word, which means less friction and suffering for everyone, and who doesn’t want that?

Learn More:

  • How not being heard or understood is a common denominator in communication issues.

  • Why healthcare has its own language and the importance of simplifying it for customers.

  • The importance of listening in successful communication.

  • The startling rate of physician suicide.

  • How people don’t always know the impact they have on others.

  • The importance of giving and receiving feedback.

  • Why getting curious about somebody’s behavior is a technique to better understand it.


  • If you want to learn how to deal with conflict more effectively, as always, we are both available for individual one on one and couples coaching. For the next couple of months, we are also offering free virtual training to organizations. Our goal is to support you, your team, and your business both at work and at home during this pandemic. Get in touch with us to find out more!

  • Outcomes Rocket Podcast Ep #540: The Beauty (not Pain) of Conflict

  • Saul Marquez: Podcast

Full Transcript:

CrisMarie: Welcome to The Beauty of Conflict, a podcast about how to deal with conflict at work, at home and everywhere else in your life. Hi, I'm CrisMarie.

Susan: And I'm Susan. We run a company called Thrive, and we specialize in conflict resolution, communication and building strong, thriving teams and relationships. Conflict shows up in our lives in so many ways. Most people, unfortunately, are not very good at handling conflict. Most people have never been taught the right tools for dealing with conflict, and then it leads to unnecessary friction, arguments, passive aggressive emails, tears, hurtful comments, stuck-ness, all kinds of things we don't want. We're on a mission to change all of that.

CrisMarie: We've spent the last 20 years teaching our clients how to handle conflict in a whole new way. We're here to show you that conflict doesn't have to be scary and overwhelming. With the right tools, you can turn a moment of conflict into a moment of reinvention. Conflict can pave the way into a beautiful new system at work, a new way of leading your team, a new way of parenting, a new chapter of your marriage where you feel more connected than ever before. Conflict can lead to beautiful things.

Today we have a very special guest with us, Saul Marquez, who we had just so much fun being interviewed by on his Outcomes Rocket podcast we had to invite him to our show.

Susan: I mean he is so passionate about his work in healthcare and what he refers to as cleaning up the trash, and more to tell you about that story as he joins us today. We’re thrilled to have him.

CrisMarie: Enjoy.


Today we have a very special guest; Saul Marquez is a healthcare executive and Media influencer. For the past decade he’s been a leader at well known companies like Stryker Orthopedics and Medtronic. The mission of his work is focused on improving outcomes and business model success in healthcare.

In addition to his leadership in the corporate world, Saul is an entrepreneur at heart, as a founder of Outcomes Rocket podcast and SMOOTH Podcasting Productions. He and his teams are focused on helping business leaders more effectively deliver their message and value to customers. With over 600+ interviews published today, and a following of 70,000 a month, he’s seeking to help founders get found, and innovators implement their ideas as quickly as possible.

He believes there’s no reason why any leader’s genius should be left untapped and he’s on a mission to simplify the way you can most effectively reach your target audience before your competitors take the industry stage. So, we’re excited to have you, Saul. And Saul was helping us as industry leaders on his podcast, so we were on Outcomes Rocket. So, welcome, Saul.

Saul: It is such a pleasure to be here, Susan and CrisMarie, thanks for having me.

CrisMarie: Absolutely.

Susan: Well, I have to tell you Saul, I really wanted to ask you this question when we were talking last time. I’ll kind of kick off with this if it’s okay, because you were telling us about your, you know, how you got engaged, the story behind how you got started. Sort of your fascination with healthcare and how it even went all the way back to when, I think it was your mom gave you the message to clean up the trash. So I wanted our listeners to hear that story because I found it fascinating. And then I have a couple of questions too, but I’ll let you start with the story.

Saul: Sure. Well, it’s such a pleasure to be here with you both and just an opportunity to address your wonderful audience. So, thank you all for being with us today. I shared the story about why I got started with the Outcomes Rocket podcast, which is a podcast that is about healthcare. And the goal is to improve outcomes and business model success. It’s a 3.5 trillion dollar industry. It represents 18% of United States GDP. It’s not the best. We’re not getting what we should be getting for the dollars that we spend there.

And so I shared with CrisMarie and Susan that as a youngster, we grew up very poor in a bad neighborhood. And my mother would always tell me, “If the home’s going to be clean, if the block’s going to be clean then you have to pick up the trash.” And it’s something that I grew up with and she always said that to me and eventually it gets ingrained. And it’s a formative experience that I have taken into my adult life and I remember being in healthcare. I’ve been in medical devices for over 12 years and I remember saying to myself, “Wow, there is so much trash here.”

And in particular, the problem of lack of communication between all the different silos that exist in healthcare and I said, “There’s something I can do here. And I’m going to pick up the proverbial trash from the ground.” And I decided to do it via podcast, where healthcare leaders could share best practices and things that they’re doing, products that they’re creating, that will inevitably help patients be healthier and help us get more for our healthcare dollar. It’s been great, and at the beginning it was a struggle to get things going.

But we were able to scale and now four years later, 600+ interviews, we’re cranking it. And have become a good source of healthcare information for anybody that’s looking to learn and stay ahead of the curve.

Susan: I love that, you guys as our listeners, you know we are passionate. Our thing is clean up the trash when it comes to communication. I hadn’t really thought of it like that. But I have often said that, “I don’t know that I’m going to change the world.” Or my version of climate change right now has more to do with how people communicate than it has to do with what could be broader level things.

And when you shared your story it just reminded me of that, we all have these areas where we make choices, hopefully, to address our environment, and hopefully clean it up, we can make a difference. And it sounds like your passion is helping people in the medical world be able to communicate better because that’s often where you saw the trash accumulating, the disconnect between the…

Saul: That’s right. That’s right. For everyone listening, if you haven’t had a chance to hear Susan and CrisMarie’s story in the Outcomes Rocket take a listen. Because I want to give both of you kudos, I mean you work so well together and talk about great communication, you guys did an extraordinary job. I’ve got a lot of positive feedback on that podcast so far, so nice work.

CrisMarie: God, it’s great, we appreciate it and you are a great interviewer, Saul, forget it.

Susan: I am curious because I loved your passion for medical devices. I mean that’s where you started. So where does that come from?

CrisMarie: What’s the back story?

Saul: The back story on that one. I studied classical humanities in university. So I studied the ancient Greeks and the Romans, much to my parents’ concern. So during school I was at a career fair and I remember having somebody from Stryker attend and they were just telling me about how they’re changing the world one life at a time, and I was just amazed. And it’s something that I really wanted to do. It just seemed like the coolest thing you could do.

From there I tried getting a job at Stryker and just it didn’t happen. They didn’t want history majors, can you believe that?

Susan: I can’t understand it.

Saul: And so it was my mission to get in. So I found out that I actually was pretty good at sales, so I did some internships during my summer years. And those internships showed me that I was good at sales. So I said, “Alright, let me get a résumé builder, do well somewhere else and then find my way in.

I was willing to literally move anywhere in the States to do it. And being born and raised in Chicago, and getting my first job out of college here in Chicago, found myself on an airplane ride to Fort Lauderdale, Florida, where I took my first medical device job. It’s been 13 years and I haven’t looked back since.

CrisMarie: Wow.

Susan: And it sounds like it’s still your passion.

Saul: It’s just wonderful. I mean when you can – and now I’m with Medtronic, so the mission there is to alleviate pain, restore health and extend life. How can you not get behind that?

CrisMarie: Who doesn’t want that? Yeah, exactly, yeah. That’s a good mission. Even in your field, can you go back to like what you see as the lack of communication in those different silos? And what have you seen, especially since you’ve had over 600 interviews, can you give our listeners kind of some key tips that break down those silos and help people connect? Because that’s – we’re always trying to help organizations talk more holistically?

Saul: Yeah. What’s super interesting, and I think it’s a great question, I mean communication is critical. I feel like healthcare in itself is its own language, like how you language things is so different. And then when you get within the different silos of healthcare, say pharmacy, versus providers, versus payers. The language is also so different. And a big challenge happens when you’re trying to achieve the mission of your organization and you’re not speaking the language of the people that you want to be engaged with.

A good example of that is if you’re working to help clinicians save lives by implementing capnography. So, capnography is an end-tidal CO2 monitoring device. It helps prevent respiratory compromise, which is basically a five billion dollar a year problem in the US alone. Over 200,000 people die every year because of it. And so if you’re going to help communicate this message in such a way that inspires clinicians to use the technology, you have to do it in their language.

And the way you do it is you learn, you listen, and without listening to clinicians and how they work and their environment within which they work, you’re never going to have success. And so one of the big things that I have found and our teams have found in med devices is that you have to listen. And you have to listen intently to understand the pain points. And maybe you guys are talking about the same pain points but you’re using completely different language.

CrisMarie: It’s interesting, because we’ve worked in pharmacy and we worked, you know, the bridge between providers and IT. And then even payers, insurance companies. And I would agree that they’re all looking at this Rubik’s cube from a very different point of view. I guess our common denominator is the human dynamics and the pain points of not feeling heard or understood, or the politics and factions that come up in organizations.

Susan: I just even think back to my own experience of being in a large – I went all the way across the US in various healthcare facilities from the National Cancer Institute, to – this is when I was dealing with cancer. And even the way in which within a hospital setting there was a breakdown in the communication. They weren’t accepting at that time, when I went to the Mayo Clinic; I was so amazed at how they had come up with a way to communicate. I could go from one place to the other and they always had my records, people knew what they were doing.

The people who were actually taking me from one test to another test were very educated about the test I was getting. The communication at that time was so amazing across all the different areas, I mean, and that so struck me. Even finding a place to live while I was there, because I was going to be there for a while, they had it down in their systems, in their communication. Now, I don’t know if that continues to be the case with the Mayo Clinic, but at the time I remember I was like, “Wow, this is a whole different set up.”

And I could really see how it breaks down in other situations I was in, even, you know, I mean you didn’t mention the patient itself, but that comes up too, who was willing to communicate how this, the language of the patient, which is usually different than the language of the doctor, and that’s it.

CrisMarie: That’s true. I guess the Mayo Clinic would be – and, Saul, this is the problem, you often saw this translating, but I guess they were patient, yeah.

Susan: Was the best I had seen at that time. I don’t know now. I think that continues to be a challenge, but maybe it’s better.

Saul: Susan, your story is incredible. I mean you overcame cancer and you know better than most how difficult it is to navigate the healthcare system. And sounds like you had a great experience at Mayo, so that’s really great to hear. Just thinking about it, like when my grandfather got his pacemaker, I went in and how do you translate medical ease? And how do you make it easy for patients to do better?

Medication adherence is a problem, 50% is the number. So 50% of all medications prescribed don’t get taken or don’t get taken the way they should. It’s a huge problem and that’s why there’s businesses now that have taken it upon themselves to solve for it. And they’re translating and making the language a lot easier to understand. They’re offering it in different languages, now there’s opportunities in voice like with Alexa and Google. And you’re right; it exists from the B2B perspective of healthcare but also the B2C, the consumer of healthcare.

CrisMarie: Can you talk a little bit, Saul, about how teamwork shows up in healthcare? Because a lot of times it seems like doctors have their point of view, probably salespeople from medical devices have their point of view, or these different areas. How do you see either…

Susan: Administration.

CrisMarie: Yeah, administration, yeah, how do you see them developing teams or not developing teams? Is it more individually based? Can you talk a little bit about that since you have such a big exposure to the industry?

Saul: Sure. And I think it varies. So there’s industry and then there’s providers. And so I think the culture and standards and just normal ways of working, vary from one to the other. But maybe let’s focus on providers for a second. So one of the biggest problems that exists is physician burnout. I mean sadly in 2020 one in every 1,000 physicians will commit suicide.

CrisMarie: I had no idea. Wow!

Saul: It’s very real. I mean, and it’s sad. And so when you talk to them, they’re going through some things, or they know somebody personally that’s going through some things that potentially even committed suicide. I mean I can’t tell you, I’ve had a lot of interviews, guys, on the podcast and they know somebody or they were close to doing it but were saved. And so there’s a level of toxicity in the environment. And there’s thankfully now many people working to solve for it, there’s physician coaches, there’s wellness programs.

And so the conflict that you experience with the pull of what’s required of you at work, and then you layer on, okay, now you have to lead a committee. And this committee of physicians, you have to put together to drive this result, how do you do it? The challenge comes around; number one, what is your culture? By the way, I want to pause for a second and say that’s just – I don’t want to be all negative, because there is also a lot of really positive.

So within the provider space, there has been an incredible amount of time spent by executive teams to bring together those Chief Innovation Officers, those Chief Strategy Officers to think through how they do their best during Covid. All the amazing work that’s been done to think through innovative ways that they could best take care of themselves while taking care of us if we need it, when we come into their doors.

CrisMarie: I was thinking, that’s why I was asking about the physicians because that’s most of our listeners probably have, you know, that touch point into the whole system of healthcare. I get that this is a, you know, there’s so much behind just the providers side. One of the places that we hear of conflict most is – and this is just more of this typical story, I have much more compassion for the physicians.

But the physician is arrogant and the nurses all have to bow and do whatever the doctor sort of wants. And that’s often a place of conflict on the provider team. I know you’re going to go another direction, but if you’ve encountered that?

Saul: No, let’s park there. Yes. And the nurses do such incredible work. And I think that there is just a negative behavior toward them. And they are faced with conflict and they’re running ragged. And so what do you do? How do you handle that? How do you stand up for yourself when there’s a hierarchy that exists? And you’re almost like expected to do exactly what you’re asked. And there’s this power that’s held by the physician. There’s ways to do it and I’ve got friends that are nurses and they have told me their story. I’ve had nurses on the podcast that have told me their story.

The common denominator of, I guess, success in handling it is just understanding the context and being able to communicate in a way that works for that particular individual. Or sometimes just walking away and saying, “No.”

Susan: I do think, I mean we talk about this a lot in terms of how do you actually influence and be relational in your communication, versus the right, wrong thinking? And I think often in a medical situation it might be pretty time sensitive. So you don’t have a lot of time to go deep. But how you present that information, I think does make a huge impact with the physician. I mean I do feel for physicians, they’re expected to know the answer, have the right answer. And I think patients want that as much as they may think they have to have it.

So that’s been set up that way, and so to actually go in and say to a physician, “What you’re doing isn’t really what you should be doing.” It would be very hard because you’re up against how do you actually say that. And we talk a lot in any kind of conflict, if you can be more relational than right, wrong, like, “Here’s what I’m seeing, I don’t know if you’re seeing the same thing but I wanted to bring it up with you.” Something to sort of take the heat off of what their rightness or wrongness.

It seems to be, you know, having done a lot of work in healthcare, that seems to help and companies like Crucial Conversations, they spent a lot of their years in the healthcare industry trying to deal with this silence that happens, that actually creates tremendous problems.

CrisMarie: And the lawsuits in malpractice, and helping doctors. And you give another context of how much pressure they’re under, but also giving doctors the place to actually move into humanness and not have to be the all knowing person.

Saul: Yeah, it’s tough. I’m thinking about this time, and this is about three or four years into my career, into medical devices. I had a customer, oh my gosh, talk about intolerable. And the guy was downright rude, just some of the stuff that he would say. And it’s difficult, because I put myself, like I guess I was just putting myself in the shoes of that nurse. And what do you do? Can you walk away?

And in that particular instance, this guy represented a good 30, 40% of the business that I was doing at the time. And he was being rude, the stuff that he would say and how he would ask for things. And the timeframe in which he would ask them for. I would feel this like pang in my gut whenever I would interact with him and I would be so glad when it was over. And you know what happened? He ended up going to a competitor and I’ve got to tell you, I was so happy. You know what, take your business and get away.

And honestly, and I think about those things and all the hell that he put me through.

CrisMarie: It is amazing that people think that I can treat you as an object and you’re in my way and what I want is most important, so just do it sort of thing. It’s, I don’t know, that people aren’t given more feedback in that, but if they’re in a position of power they think it’s okay.

Saul: Yeah. And I was just glad to transition from that. But I mean it was one of the only times that it’s happened to me, and so I could totally empathize.

CrisMarie: I take it, was he a doctor?

Saul: Yeah, he was. He was. I mean I have had every, like the majority of my customers who are all physicians. So there’s a lot of great people out there and if there’s a way, and maybe you’re going through that right now. Maybe you’re dealing with somebody like I just described whether it be a physician or not, there are a lot of people that are like that. And there’s also tons more that are not like that. If there’s an opportunity for you to just walk away, do it.

And I know maybe – I don’t know, you know, Susan and CrisMarie, you’re probably like, “Oh no, you shouldn’t walk away, you should deal with it.” But what is your thought, I mean and what would you have advised me back in the day when I was dealing with this guy?

Susan: I think there might be a time when walking away from it is the best solution. I mean I do think if there is a way, I mean we often say, “If you can get curious as opposed to just projecting my story, this person is an arrogant doctor, who’s that - whatever. He’s obnoxious to everyone.” If I could back up and get curious, so what is going on? Because this is what I’m observing and it’s happened a few different times. And I don’t actually know if you’re even aware of it.

I’ve found in situations where I can get curious that sometimes that will shift the dynamic quite rapidly. First off, I think sometimes I’ve found, especially in a role like that, that person is surprised that someone actually is interested in them and not just making them wrong, even though that no one’s ever given them the feedback.

Those are two things I’ve bumped into with very strong opinionated people whose behavior hasn’t really even been questioned. And especially not questioned from a curious, not righteous, and sometimes it’s hard to do. I mean sad to say I’m actually kind of righteous about it. But I want to get to some curiosity because this is the third time we’ve had this conversation.

CrisMarie: I mean that’s what I saw, when I first met Susan she dealt with somebody who was like that, kind of taking over, dominating. And what I saw you do, Susan, is you were quite firm and direct, and reflected back what the impact. And you could see the rest of us because I grew up with somebody like this, my dad was like that, so I was like, “What’s going to happen?”

But it’s kind of like bullies, nobody will stand up to them and when somebody does there’s kind of almost like it kind of crumbles a lot of times behind it, because they’re not used to it. They’re used to just being the loud kid on the playground sort of thing and everybody acquiescing.

Saul: Give them feedback.

Susan: Give them feedback from a perspective…

Saul: I never did that. I never did that.

Susan: Yeah, most of the time that’s what, you know, I mean I guess I’ve been paid a lot of money over the years to come in and deal with people that nobody actually really wants to talk to. And nine times out of ten it’s like, okay, no one’s actually given you that feedback before, so, well, let me be clear with you.

I remember the first coaching job I ever did was with a CEO where I just basically said, “I know that you’re really kind of a,” – well, excuse my language, “An ass.” And he said, “No, my people love me.” And I’m like, “You are so blind, you own what’s happening here.” And actually it was later he said, “I want to hire you as my coach.” He said, “You’re the first person who’s been that honest with me.” So I do think sometimes because of the behavior we don’t get the feedback.

CrisMarie: And people don’t actually know the level of impact. Yes, they get their way, but if they knew how. Well, this CEO, we walked through the business and you could see people cringing and reacting to him non-verbally, and he was not aware of that. Then a lot of people have trauma dealing with scary people and so we back away.

Saul: Yeah. It’s sort of the perspective that maybe they’re your boss, maybe they’re your boss’s boss. Maybe they’re somebody important in an organization; still communicate with them what they’re doing, but find a good way to do it.

CrisMarie: And we often, we encourage peers to do this. It is hard when you’re going up a level or up a couple of levels to give somebody feedback, just because of the hierarchy. But when we work with teams, sure, the boss can give you that feedback, but also we want peers to be able to give each other feedback and have each other’s back. “Dude, do you see what’s going on here?” I would want, if I’m doing something I would want Susan to tell me, versus our client to tell me, that’s also countercultural.

So when we work with teams you really build that capacity to have each other’s back and self-regulate as a group, giving each other feedback.

Saul: One of my managers recently, the VP of Sales, he gave me feedback and he said, “I tend to be too positive.”

CrisMarie: Yeah, feedback for you, Saul?

Saul: Yeah, that was my feedback. And I was like, “Ouch. What do you mean?” And it was a tough pill for me to swallow. But I said, “Okay, let me check my ego at the door, there’s got to be something here.” Because we’re on the same team, he’s a great guy. I think that he’s looking out for me here, but my first reaction was like, “Seriously?” And so I took a step back and I internalized his message and I reflected on it overall. And what I got out of it was amazing, and I’ll share it with you.

It was an example of conflict, because how do you deal with that? Do I respond in telling him, “You’re wrong, or I disagree?” Or do I take a step back and try to understand? And so I took a step back, I tried to understand, I actually got a lot out of it.

So the message six months later was – and this is about a year and a half ago. This was, “When you’re too positive in the boardroom, leaders will think there’s nothing wrong. And if there’s nothing wrong there’s nothing to fix, and things will always stay the same. And you tend to sweeten your message a little too much. So give perspective on the empty side of the glass as well as the full side of the glass, you’ll have more credibility.” And I was like, “Wow!”

CrisMarie: That’s cool.

Saul: And the first time I did it was a little uncomfortable. But I could tell from the response in the room it was good. And then I just kept doing it, and now it’s a habit. But I have since thanked him for that feedback.

CrisMarie: Absolutely. I think, Susan, you’ve often said, “If I don’t hear kind of the full spectrum it’s less believable.” When somebody’s too nice and polite or positive, it’s kind of like, well, what are you not saying? Because we all like things and don’t like things, or there’s good things and not such good things. So I love that your manager told you that and you were able to kind of take it in, digest it and shift your approach in dealing with. Because things don’t change, if I don’t get the feedback I won’t change, so nor will the boardroom. I love that.

Are there any final things that you want to share and how can people connect to you and find you?

Saul: Well, firstly, check out Susan and CrisMarie’s interview on the podcast, I think, because they did a really great job. And then if your curiosity expands beyond that, check out some other healthcare interviews, because there’s a ton of really great stuff happening in healthcare. I know today we spent some time focused on some of the challenges and guess what? I’m using my manager’s advice.

But there’s also a ton of good and so I welcome all of you to go to to learn more about healthcare with a lot of the great interviews that we’ve done with companies like Wal-Mart and CVS and Pfizer, you name it. There have been so many great leaders on there, come on over, listen to us, and big kudos to you Susan and CrisMarie for the work you’re doing, keep it up.

CrisMarie: Thank you, Saul, you are so positive, I love it.

Saul: Thank you. Thank you.

CrisMarie: Okay, yeah, it’s actually meant kindly.

Saul: No, I know, it’s received, thank you.

CrisMarie: Take care.

Wasn’t that a fun interview?

Susan: Yes, I really enjoyed talking to Saul and he, again, shed some light on some pain points. I didn’t really even realize, especially with physicians and their high level of suicide and it just made me think of even in the work we do, getting to support people who are in those high stress jobs, whether it’s a physician or a leader high in an organization.

CrisMarie: Yeah. The coaching that we do, especially during this Covid time has been to help people deal with stress, because we have been helping people do that all along with conflict, because what is conflict, but stress? It’s very stressful, so how do you actually settle yourself so you can have these tough conversations and become more effective in your job overall?

Susan: And healthcare is definitely an industry where there is a lot of stress, especially during these times.

CrisMarie: And even what I loved his story about feedback and how he first wanted to defend against it, of course he’s too nice of a guy to do that, so he let it in. And I do think one of the things that we as leadership coaches, what you do Susan in your Lighthouse coaching, what I do in my leadership coaching is provide feedback in people’s blind spots that they’re just not aware of, which really helps them grow as an executive, as a leader in their business.

Susan: Because it is difficult as you rise in an organization or as you get into more roles of power or authority, where you’d get less and less honest feedback, you don’t have a regular sounding board. And that is what coaching, and connections, and mentorships can support you in having.

CrisMarie: And even the work that we’re doing, we’re doing more teamwork even virtually and it’s so powerful for each person on the team to get feedback. Because we don’t know how we’re being perceived and it creates much stronger relationships and much more awareness of how we’re each coming across, which makes a better team.

So if you’d like support either for leadership coaching, you can contact me, CrisMarie Campbell or Susan Clarke. Or if you want us to work with your team, yes, virtually in those squares, we can do that.

Susan: And of course if you’re in healthcare and want to learn some more, check out Saul’s podcast.

CrisMarie: Outcomes Rocket. And if you need help with your team in healthcare, we’re happy to help you. Take care.

If you want to learn more about what we discussed today, or how to deal with conflict more effectively, Susan and myself, CrisMarie are both available for individual one-on-one coaching. We also offer couples coaching, which now as we live and work 24/7 together, may be more important than ever.

Susan: We continue to do our team facilitation, both live and now virtually. Let’s get real, until you’ve had a tough conversation over Zoom, you may not be building the trust you need on your team. For the next couple of months we are offering free virtual trainings to organizations. Our goal is to support you, your team and your business, both at work and at home during this pandemic.

CrisMarie: Right now you can find short videos on my, CrisMarie’s LinkedIn and Facebook with tips, tools and inspiration. To contact us, email, that’s

Susan: Okay, stay safe, stay healthy and remember, together we’re better and stronger.

CrisMarie: Take care.


CrisMarie Campbell and Susan Clarke

Coaches, Business Consultants, Speakers and Authors of The Beauty of Conflict

CrisMarie and Susan work leaders and teams, couples in business, and professional women.

They help turnaround dysfunctional teams into high performing, cohesive teams who trust each other, deal with differences directly, and have clarity and alignment on their business strategy so they create great results.

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